You are here
Interview of Dean H. Lewis by R. Douglas Brackenridge, Tape 1, Side 2.
Primary tabs
Download
- speakerSo, decided
- speakerthe configuration, pick up on that.
- speakerIt's.
- speakerIf you have to
- speakercome to that sense
- speakeras a mature adult.
- speakerWell, sort
- speakerof like Shakespeare,
- speakerI have a sense that if you've grown
- speakerup
- speakerhearing and reading Shakespeare,
- speakerwhen you later come intellectually
- speakerto study that, it means
- speakermore to you than if
- speakeryou started from scratch
- speakerand that from that point on
- speakerShakespeare,
- speakerif you come to it only as an adult,
- speakerthere's an intellectual perception
- speakerand you appreciate the structure
- speakerand so on.
- speakerBut it never has the same power
- speakerfor you and the same hold on you
- speakerthat it must have.
- speakerIf you have known that language in
- speakerthose cadences all your life, and
- speakerthen suddenly get this.
- speakerAnd it's the same way I think
- speakerpersons who in college encounter
- speakerreligious possibility
- speakerdecide to become
- speakerinvolved in the church, go on
- speakerto seminary.
- speakerThey learn a lot about what it what
- speakerit means, you
- speakerknow. But I have a sense
- speakerthat it can not
- speakerquite be the same
- speakeras it must be.
- speakerI have the same anxiety, the same
- speakerfear, for instance, about our
- speakerpolitical covenants.
- speakerI think
- speakersomehow we learned in schools
- speakerin those years some deeper
- speakerpsychological appreciation for
- speakerthe political covenants of structure
- speakerof this society than people do
- speakertoday.
- speakerAnd so later on, when we became
- speakerintellectually to appreciate that
- speakerand to learn more about the warts
- speakerand bad stuff as well as a
- speakergood. We yet had a structural
- speakersense of of appreciation
- speakerfor it and a kind of esthetic
- speakerinvolvement with it that
- speakeryou don't have if you haven't known
- speakerthat.
- speakerBut hey,
- speakerall of us, when we get older, tend
- speakerto believe that the way we got
- speakercultured, is this the right
- speakerway to do it.
- speakerAll
- speakerI know is that
- speakerfor me, through the years,
- speakerthis appreciation
- speakerof
- speakervision,
- speakerof authority, of
- speakera path of obedience in
- speakerethical and moral behavior,
- speakerthat is a dynamic path
- speakershaped by
- speakerall of these forces, as well
- speakeras the world in which you live, have
- speakerbeen the the structure
- speakerof my own, my own ministry
- speakerin my own life
- speakeras a Christian.
- speakerAnd I wouldn't necessarily
- speakertrade it
- speakerfor much of it, including the
- speakerSouthern Baptist part.
- speakerI have no
- speakerI have no negative feelings.
- speakerI have no you know, I'm not fighting
- speakermy fundamentalist
- speakerheritage or anything like that,
- speakernever have.
- speakerI think that's that's one of the
- speakerthings that that to me
- speakerin some way
- speakeridentifies the
- speakerthis period of history that we're
- speakergoing to be talking about.
- speakerBecause it seems to me that a great
- speakerdeal of the leadership in the
- speakerPresbyterian Church
- speakercame out of backgrounds not
- speakerunsimilar to you.
- speakerThat is, maybe they were not Baptist
- speakernecessarily, but
- speakerI think the spiritual journey
- speakerwas a lot like
- speakerthat. There are a lot of common
- speakerfeatures and kind
- speakerof convergence of
- speakerintellectual and theological
- speakercurrents that
- speakerthat if you want to call a
- speakerworldview or a theological view,
- speakerthat
- speakerthat made a real impact on
- speakernot only the Presbyterian Church but
- speakerother denominations as well.
- speakerAnd I think that that
- speakeras inevitably it does
- speakereras, you know, and
- speakerand so and that
- speakerpart of where we are now is in the
- speakersense of of having to
- speakerto to kind of
- speakerreconstitute or find
- speakersome some other now
- speakermodel or whatever term you want to
- speakeruse to to
- speakergive us some sense of who we are and
- speakerwhere we are in and what we're
- speakerabout.
- speakerYeah, I think that's true of up
- speakeruntil the because I was I was
- speakercultured both politically and
- speakerculturally and religiously in the period of the
- speakerDepression, I was born in 1926.
- speakerI started school in 1932
- speakerand I graduated
- speakerfrom high school in 1944
- speakerWorld War, so that my formative
- speakeryears were
- speakerin years of the Depression.
- speakerAnd I think there is a, you know
- speakeryou look back on that,
- speakerera of American innocence and in so
- speakermany ways,
- speakerand there was a kind of a common
- speakershaping religion in the society,
- speakerstill had a kind of organic
- speakerinterconnection that was presumed
- speakeryou didn't have to argue about
- speakerit, it was presumed.
- speakerAnd that lasted on through the
- speakerSecond World War and even into the
- speakerearly years of of the fifties.
- speakerYou think of the people that have
- speakerthat have that were
- speakerborn in the
- speakerin the fifties and that grew
- speakerto consciousness both religiously
- speakerand culturally in the sixties and
- speakerseventies and are now entering
- speakerinto leadership that
- speakeris an entirely different world,
- speakerutterly different world in the
- speakerchurch, in the society,
- speakereverything else.
- speakerOh, I can
- speakerI can remember,
- speakeryou know, my my uncle L.
- speakerB. Campbell, whose daddy was a
- speakerBaptist preacher, had married
- speakermy father's sister J.
- speakerMilton Campbell down in the Ozarks.
- speakerOh.
- speakerUncle L. B.
- speakerwas a member of the
- speakerMissouri National Guard, the
- speakerHoun Dawg Regiment.
- speakerAnd they used to train
- speakerevery year at
- speakerCamp Champ Clark, Bennett Champ
- speakerClark down in
- speakersouthern Missouri.
- speakerAnd L. B.
- speakerwould come by and visit us.
- speakerAnd I can remember,
- speakeryou know, people being
- speakerkind of
- speakerintrigued by by by uniform,
- speakermilitary uniform.
- speakerThere just wasn't military
- speakerstuff around.
- speakerI mean,
- speakerand it was, you know, the
- speakerI can remember him talking about,
- speakeryou know, their old beat
- speakerup equipment. They were trying to
- speakerkeep running and stuff like that.
- speakerThe whole era of of
- speakera society that
- speakerwas aware of the rest of the world
- speakeronly in kind of
- speakercurious terms about these crazy
- speakerthings that kept happening.
- speakerAnd then as the late thirties
- speakercame on,
- speakerhe began to get more and more sense
- speakerof possible connection.
- speakerBut nobody
- speakersince the Second World War has been
- speakerable to avoid
- speakersome sense of, you know, America's
- speakerengagement with the world
- speakeras an essential part
- speakerof their both theological
- speakerand cultural
- speakerformation that we could
- speakerI mean, you
- speakerknow,
- speakerthe Bob Wills and
- speakerand his Texas Playboys, that was
- speakerour world.
- speakerWell maybe
- speakerwe could maybe if we could move
- speakeron so we pick up the chronology.
- speakerWhere we left off was
- speakerI think you were talking about
- speakeryour first.
- speakerEntry into more or less the
- speakerstructure of the Church
- speakerand Society or what came to be
- speakerChurch and Society.
- speakerYeah, well, I came back to
- speakerPhiladelphia in 1960 October
- speakerto
- speakerinitiate this new department
- speakerthat Bill Morrison had in mind, the
- speakerDepartment of Social Education and
- speakerEvangelism.
- speakerIt was a unit in the
- speakerDivision of Lay
- speakerEducation,
- speakerwhich was a part of the new
- speakerstructure that Bill was in,
- speakerwhich was itself a part of the
- speakerlarger Division of Parish Education
- speakerand so on. In other words, it was
- speakernot related to
- speakerthe Department of Social Education
- speakerand Action,
- speakerand there was a certain amount
- speakerof tension about that.
- speakerSo I was made
- speakera sort of auxiliary member of
- speakerthe SEA staff
- speakerand was also considered an auxiliary
- speakermember still of the evangelism
- speakerstaff where I had been
- speakerbefore coming back there.
- speakerSo I would go to New York for
- speakerevangelism staff meetings,
- speakerand I would get in on the SEA
- speakerstaff meetings.
- speakerBut
- speakerClifford
- speakerwas pretty Clifford Earle,
- speakerwhich was in the head of it,
- speakerand Clifford was was not
- speakerparticularly happy about this
- speakerpotential competition
- speakerin the whole area of social
- speakerthings being
- speakerbuilt down here in the education
- speakerwing of the of the thing.
- speakerAnd there was a certain amount of a
- speakercertain amount of tension
- speakerthat went along with all of that.
- speakerBut we
- speakerworked together on a lot of stuff.
- speakerAnd I was a part of the SEA
- speakerstaff.
- speakerSEA as your
- speakerresearch probably
- speakerhas indicated to you, became
- speakerthe Office of Church and Society
- speakerin 1961.
- speakerMy first
- speakerwell, my first General Assembly
- speakeras a member of the denominational
- speakerstaff was, of course 1958
- speakerwhen the
- speakerthe merger between
- speakerthe UPNA and the PCUSA
- speakertook place in Pittsburgh.
- speakerSo it was my first assembly.
- speakerSo in
- speakeressence, I was on
- speakerthe national staff all the way
- speakerthrough that period
- speakerinto the current
- speakerreorganization period
- speakerand had
- speakerthus sort of come in
- speakerto the work of
- speakerabout the same time that the UPNA
- speakerstaff was being integrated
- speakerinto the social action
- speakerarm of the church.
- speakerHoward Maxwell was coming over from
- speakerPittsburgh. And so
- speakerwe worked together on a lot of
- speakerthings like synod schools.
- speakerMy unit prepared a lot of material
- speakerfor synod schools studies.
- speakerWe did some special training
- speakerprograms, things like that.
- speakerOh, I got
- speakera couple of years.
- speakerI persuaded the board that there was
- speakerenough work I was trying to do that
- speakerI needed an associate, so
- speakerI got somebody to come and
- speakerhelp me.
- speakerRalph Potter first, who then
- speakerwent on to Harvard, and then
- speakerDieter Hessel, who stayed
- speakerwith the church after that
- speakerand is now going to be, in
- speakeressence, my successor
- speakeras the Social Witness Policy
- speakerCommittee person.
- speakerBut we did we did a number
- speakerof things
- speakerthat were,
- speakerat least by our own
- speakerdefinition, part of
- speakerthe educational enterprise
- speakerdealing with social problems.
- speakerWe tried to stay out of
- speakerpolitical strategies and things like
- speakerthat because that was the
- speakerSEA department's or Church and
- speakerSociety Department's. In
- speaker1966,
- speakerafter I'd been there for
- speakersix years,
- speakerheading on into my seventh year,
- speakerI began to
- speakerI began to get
- speakera little feeling of
- speakerrestlessness. I was hitting my 40th
- speakerbirthday and
- speakerhad been there for six, nearly seven
- speakeryears, and things
- speakerseemed kind of you know
- speakertracked. We had synod schools and
- speakersyllabi to prepare and, you know,
- speakercouple of Krisheim Institutes on
- speakerSocial Involvement to run a year.
- speakerAnd Frank Heinze and I
- speakerhad put together the December 22nd
- speakermovement to deal with
- speakerthe right wing
- speakerforces that are floating around.
- speakerAnd that was every year we were
- speakerrunning
- speakerthat and so forth. The Synod of Ohio
- speakerwas, Dick Plummer
- speakerhad gone out there to the Synod
- speakerExec.
- speakerAnd he was after me to come out and
- speakerjoin that staff
- speakerand become the
- speakerfirst Synod staff for
- speakersocial education and evangelism
- speakerthat he wanted to get started
- speakerjob that Bob Hoppe later
- speakerdid decide to do.
- speakerAnd I was halfway tempted to do that
- speakerjust because I was feeling restless
- speakerand I needed to change.
- speaker40 years old.
- speakerWhat am I going to be doing?
- speakerAnd so on.
- speakerBut then I decided what I would do
- speakerwould be apply for a sabbatical
- speakerand not
- speakertake the synod job.
- speakerNot foreclose
- speakerthe possibility of continuing
- speakeron national staff, which in a
- speakersense that would have done to move
- speakerout
- speakerand applied for a sabbatical and was
- speakergiven six months.
- speakerSo that
- speakerbeginning in
- speakerJanuary of 67,
- speakerJune, my wife and Melinda,
- speakerand I went to Mexico.
- speakerWe spent four months in Cuernavaca
- speakerwith Ivan Illich in language study
- speakerand other kind of stuff,
- speakerand then spent two months through
- speakerthe rest of Latin America
- speakerworking with seminaries and
- speakerlocal church groups and church and
- speakersociety structures in those
- speakerplaces and conferences and things
- speakerlike that and
- speakerthoroughly enjoyed it.
- speakerWe got back in the summer, in
- speakerAugust
- speakerof 67,
- speakerand
- speakertwo things happened.
- speakerBy this point I
- speakerhad decided pretty well to stay
- speakerin in Philadelphia
- speakerand with the board or something.
- speakerSo we moved from the suburbs
- speakerinto the city. We had lived in White
- speakerMarsh Township in the suburbs
- speakerof Montgomery County, and we moved
- speakerinto Mount Airy,
- speakera
- speakeran integrating
- speakersection, the whole section of
- speakerof Northwest Philadelphia.
- speakerThat was a big move for
- speakerus. It had some negatives
- speakeras well as positives over the years,
- speakeras we learned.
- speakerAnd Bob
- speakerBulkley, who had
- speakerfor the last couple of years before
- speakerthat in 65
- speakeror 64, maybe he came, I forgot,
- speakerto succeed Clifford Earle in the
- speakerChurch and Society job, Bob Bulkley
- speakerquit to go back and take
- speakerthe job was what, Synod Exec or
- speakerPresbytery Exec
- speakerin the north coast.
- speakerNo he was he went out to Portalhurst
- speakerChurch in
- speakerSan Francisco and therefore
- speakerthe Church and Society job was
- speakeropen, when Clifford had retired.
- speakerI had entertained or
- speakerClifford had left gone up to New
- speakerYork, to the UN job,
- speakerI had entertained at that point some
- speakerthought about trying
- speakerto persuade that I
- speakershould be made head of the Church
- speakerand Society Office, but
- speakerI just didn't feel somehow
- speakerready for it, I guess.
- speakerBen Sissel also at that point, I
- speakerthink thought of himself
- speakeras a potential successor.
- speakerBut for whatever reason, I never
- speakerheard Bill Morrison talk about this
- speakerI don't know why.
- speakerThey went outside and they brought
- speakerin and
- speakerof course, in those days you didn't
- speakerhave advertisements and interviews
- speakerand stuff like that.
- speakerI mean, the head of the board just
- speakerdecided and went out and picked
- speakersomebody. Whatever process they had
- speakerof winnowing things out was was
- speakertheirs.
- speakerBut Bulkley had gone.
- speakerAnd again,
- speakerI didn't
- speakerthink too much.
- speakerI thought maybe they would ask Ben
- speakerto do it or something.
- speakerBut I was at home one evening and
- speakerI think it was November
- speakerof late October,
- speakerNovember of 67.
- speakerAnd I got a call from Bill Morrison
- speakersaying the board was meeting
- speakernext week and
- speakerhe wanted to present my name
- speakerto them as nominee
- speakerfor
- speakerthe Church and Society job
- speakerand permit that to happen.
- speakerSo I thought about it a little
- speakerbit and with some
- speakertrepidation I figured, well, maybe I
- speakerwas ready to try it and
- speakerdid so then on January
- speaker1st, 68,
- speakerI moved into the position
- speakerof the director of the Church and
- speakerSociety Office, Secretary of
- speakerthe Office, as it was in those days
- speakerafter having had
- speakerthe seven years of association
- speakerwith it and the staff
- speakeron the Board of Christian Education,
- speakerthe staff in the
- speakereducational division,
- speakerso that it was not like moving in,
- speakeryou know, completely from the
- speakeroutside and
- speakerso on, I knew the people, I knew the
- speakeroperation saw, and
- speakerI persuaded soon
- speakerthe board, in
- speakeressence, to close the
- speakerOffice of Social Education and
- speakerEvangelism, transfer
- speakerDieter up to the Church
- speakerand Society office with me and
- speakercombine those operations.
- speakerSo in a way, I thought later,
- speakerin a way, what I had done was to
- speakersolve the problem of a
- speakerdivided turf and potential conflict
- speakerthat Clifford had been worried about
- speakerat the beginning by simply bringing
- speakerthem back together again,
- speakerand which I would of course, been
- speakerunwilling to do as long as I was in
- speakerthe one spot.
- speakerBut from that
- speakerpoint on then I was
- speakerfor the 20 years up until
- speakerthis last January, when the ACCS
- speakerexpired.
- speakerFor those 20 years, I was the
- speakerdirector of the Church and Society
- speakerenterprise.
- speakerAnd if you just cast
- speakeryour mind over the pit to the
- speaker20 years from January one, 1968
- speakerto January one, 1988,
- speakerwere fairly momentous
- speakeryears in the
- speakerChurch's struggle with itself
- speakerover organizational forms
- speakerand structures and
- speakerone thing and another, as well as
- speakerin its social
- speakerwitness and policy
- speakerarea.
- speakerWe started with the Vietnam War
- speakerand.
- speakerEnded with Central America.
- speakerIf you want to look at it in that
- speakerway.
- speakerFrom one irregular
- speakerand much controverted involvement
- speakermilitarily of the US and
- speakerin a backward part of the
- speakerThird World and Asia to similarly
- speakercontroverted and irregular
- speakermilitary involvement by the US in
- speakerthe backward part
- speakerof the Third World of Latin America.
- speakerWhy don't if
- speakerwe could just without worrying about
- speakerwhether you get everything or not,
- speakeryou set up a pretty nice
- speakerframework here 20,
- speaker20 years, 68 to 88,
- speakerand you start with
- speakerVietnam without
- speakerreally trying to get into
- speakerthem. What what
- speakerissues
- speakerdo you, do you recall
- speakeras being the significant
- speakerones?
- speakerIf you were to focus, if Vietnam
- speakerwas one.
- speakerWell, Vietnam was clearly
- speakerone.
- speakerAnd that
- speakerthat
- speakeris comprised of a number of
- speakerthings, a series
- speakerof struggles in the General Assembly
- speakerover General Assembly policy,
- speakerincluding the appointment of a
- speakerspecial committee
- speakerthat we had to work out how in the
- speakerworld we were going to be related to
- speakerthat special committee,
- speakerwhich was already in operation when
- speakerI came in in 68.
- speakerThat was the Carey Joint Committee
- speakerthat had been set up,
- speakerI believe, after 19 oh.
- speakerIt was set up in 68
- speakeras a parallel to the report we
- speakerbrought in
- speakerof the Emergency
- speakerMinistry on Conscience and War,
- speakerwhich was
- speakera a way
- speakerof dealing with dissent and
- speakerwith the Presbyterian
- speakercounseling program, with
- speakerPresbyterian young people.
- speakerPresbyterians were fleeing to Canada
- speakerand so on.
- speakerThat was part of that which
- speakerwhich we set up
- speakerso that Vietnam means
- speakernot only the GA stuff,
- speakerbut it begins.
- speakerRemember the Assembly of 67,
- speakerwhich I had missed because I was in
- speakerSouth America.
- speakerThat was the assembly in which Bob
- speakerBrown chaired the Standing
- speakerCommittee on Church and Society
- speakerand was brought in the Declaration
- speakerof 67
- speakeron the Declaration of Conscience
- speakeron Vietnam, which in
- speakera sense kind of laid the
- speakerfoundation for the
- speakercontinuing witness of the Assembly
- speakeron Vietnam then put on, but
- speakerin 68 and 69
- speakerin 70, 69
- speakerwas San Antonio, for Pete's sake.
- speakerThe issue there wasn't Vietnam, the
- speakerissue there was the whole Latin
- speakerAmerica report and
- speakerof course the La Raza
- speakerCaucus and Jim Forman and the Black
- speakerEconomic Development Conference, I
- speakerwas the
- speakermiddle of all of those things.
- speakerWe took in the reports on La Raza
- speakerand and the reports
- speakeron US Latin America relations,
- speakerwhich, by the way, is is a report
- speakerthat still we were I was in a
- speakermeeting not long ago
- speakerand with some folk in
- speakerin Honduras
- speakerwhen a guy
- speakerwho was who was
- speakera methodist missionary later on,
- speakerwas with WOLA, Washington Office on Latin America
- speakerfor a while reminded
- speakerme of that 69 statement
- speakeron illusion and reality in US Latin
- speakerAmerican relationships, and said,
- speakerWhen I became a methodist missionary
- speakerin 1971,
- speakerthat was part of the curriculum
- speakerthat was required for us
- speakerin our preparation to go into
- speakerCentral America.
- speakerSo that is
- speakerstill remembered.
- speakerAnd it still, by the way, stands up
- speakeras a pretty damn good statement.
- speakerIt was the first well,
- speakerit was the first of the
- speakerinternational relations kind
- speakerof statements, that I was
- speakerable to kind of put
- speakermy own
- speakerparticular
- speakerstamp
- speakerof skew spin,
- speakerwhatever you want to call it on,
- speakerin that
- speakerI was able to insist
- speakerthat it deal with
- speakerthe structure of the Church's
- speakeractivity and relations in
- speakerLatin America, as well as
- speakerwith social policy,
- speakerwhich was a commitment I had
- speakerat every point, was to try
- speakerto insist that
- speakerthe application of
- speakerthe policy being recommended for the
- speakersocial order was
- speakerwas overtly
- speakerapplied to the church's operations
- speakeras well, both in terms of analysis
- speakerand in terms of recommendations for
- speakercorrection, which brought us into
- speakerconflict with COEMAR over and over
- speakeragain, of course.
- speakerBut that
- speakerwas 69 in 1970.
- speakerThat was the Chicago convention and
- speakerlord in a Chicago General Assembly
- speakerand I don't know whether you
- speakerremember that one or not,
- speakerbut that's
- speakerthe time that,
- speakerbig blow up.
- speakerAnd we invited
- speakerthe president to come and
- speakerspeak, who of course, did not but he
- speakersent,
- speakerGeorge Romney, as a personal
- speakerrepresentative last minute.
- speakerAnd Romney addressed the assembly
- speakerand told us that the
- speakerwar in Vietnam was illegal and
- speakerunconstitutional.
- speakerBut give us a little more time,
- speakerwe're going to clean it up.
- speakerDon't please don't pass a resolution
- speakertelling us to get out and stuff
- speakerlike that.
- speaker71 We were still debating
- speakerthat. 72 So Vietnam swept
- speakeracross several of those years.
- speakerBut as I say,
- speaker1970, 69 was also
- speakerUS Latin American relations, which
- speakerwas which was a
- speakerlandmark struggle
- speakerand one which reverberated
- speakerfor several years because that's the
- speakerfirst time we said normalized
- speakerdiplomatic relationships with Cuba
- speakerand get the hell out of Central
- speakerAmerica, close the military bases
- speakerand quit training all those
- speakerguerrillas down there.
- speakerAnd so we had then to
- speakerdeal with Martin Anorga and the
- speakerwhole Cuban exile community
- speakerin Miami who are still at
- speakerit, by the way, down there
- speakerover that one.
- speakerSo it wasn't simply Vietnam.
- speakerBecause there were all of these
- speakerother things. 1970 was also
- speakerthe big
- speakerflack over the
- speakerstatement on human sexuality and
- speakerreport on human sexuality.
- speakerParade magazine came out the week
- speakerbefore the assembly with this
- speakerbig sensational exposé
- speakerfrom their point of view,
- speakerPresbyterians, okay premarital
- speakerintercourse or something like that,
- speakerand set the stage for
- speakerthe General Assembly commissioners
- speakerbeing inundated with telegrams
- speakerand stuff from all over the church.
- speakerAnd we had this big long battle
- speakeron the floor of the Assembly about
- speakerthat report and
- speakerthat study paper,
- speakerwhich was,
- speakerI think, equally influential and
- speakerequally
- speakerequally important.
- speaker1970 was also the year
- speakerwe instigated instituted
- speakerthe Committee on
- speakeron the Mission Responsibility
- speakerThrough Investment.
- speakerSo that's the year that the Church's
- speakerfundamental policy and structure
- speakerfor dealing with its own investments
- speakeron social responsibility concerns
- speakerwas put in place,
- speakerwhich also, by the way, illustrates
- speakeranother favorite
- speakertheme of
- speakermine we deliberately turned away
- speakerfrom simply making
- speakerGeneral Assembly statements that
- speakerestablished positions
- speakerinto trying to ensure
- speakerthat that means
- speakerof institutional implementation
- speakerwere built into
- speakerthe Assembly's actions
- speakerso that we not only recommended
- speakera position on social responsibility
- speakerthrough investment, but we
- speakerincluded in the report
- speakerthe recommended structure
- speakerand operation of the Committee
- speakeron Mission Responsibility Through
- speakerInvestment, who was on it,
- speakerwhere it was lodged, how it was to
- speakeroperate and so forth.
- speakerAnd our insistence
- speakeron doing that over the years
- speakerled us into a series of incessant
- speakerbattles with the bureaucratic
- speakermachineries of the General Assembly
- speakeragencies and boards who
- speakernever like to be told by the General
- speakerAssembly how to organize or what
- speakerto organize or what to emphasize
- speakeror anything else they want
- speakerthe General Assembly ordinarily to
- speakerpass vague things, and they will
- speakerdecide whether to do anything
- speakerabout it, what to do about it, how
- speakerto structure it, whether staff is
- speakerneeded and so forth.
- speakerAnd I had known enough about
- speakerthat system from my several years
- speakerat the board to realize
- speakerthat if you want something
- speakerdone,
- speakeryou have to try to get
- speakerthe assembly to specify
- speakerwhat is to be done
- speakeras well as the, you know, the
- speakerpolicy or the direction or the
- speakerposition that is to be taken.
- speakerAnd so we would we would just take
- speakerthese things in, a peacemaking
- speakeradvisory committee with staff, you
- speakerknow, a mission responsibility
- speakerthrough investment committee, a
- speakerprogram of
- speakerhelp for Presbyterian
- speakerpeople during the Vietnam era
- speakerthat had a structure and a staff and
- speakera source of funding, a hunger
- speakerprogram that got its funding from
- speakerover here, you know, so on,
- speakerusually engaged in a bitter struggle
- speakerwith the Program Agency or the
- speakerGeneral Assembly Mission Council or
- speakersomebody else who just
- speakerdon't like that sort of thing.
- speakerThat was, as I remember,
- speakerthat 1970
- speakerstatement on Mission Responsibility
- speakerthrough Investment was the first one
- speakerthat we built in a
- speakerself
- speakerself-operating recommendation
- speakerfor structure and
- speakerimplementation authority,
- speakerbut trying to do it very often from then on.
- speakerOh, you're going up.
- speakerWhat else do you hit?
- speakerOh, Lord.
- speakerYou can't go.
- speakerWell, I had my little charts with
- speakerme. I could tell you more about it.
- speakerOh.
- speakerObviously, the big homosexuality
- speakerissues in
- speakerfrom 1976 to
- speaker1978 was
- speakera landmark struggle
- speakerin the life of the church and a
- speakerlandmark operation for the
- speakerearly Advisory Council on
- speakerChurch and Society.
- speakerSouth
- speakerAfrica comes in there at a couple
- speakerpoints. The
- speakermajor statement on
- speakerwell a three year process on
- speakerthe Middle East, which
- speakerfinally ended up with peoples and
- speakerconflict in the Middle East.
- speakerAnd again a policy position that
- speakerstill by
- speakerthe way holds up very, very well
- speakerand is still used in a lot of
- speakerdifferent places.
- speakerIt's interesting that a lot of the
- speakerstuff we've produced
- speakeris
- speakeris used over a longer
- speakerperiod of time and with greater
- speakerappreciation by
- speakerother denominations in this country
- speakerand Canada around the world
- speakerthan it is in our own church very
- speakeroften.
- speakerI got a letter not long ago from a
- speakerchurch up in Canada that
- speakerhad was asking for permission
- speakerto reproduce some of the background
- speakerpapers we did in the homosexuality
- speakerstudy, branding them the finest
- speakerexposition of these issues they had
- speakeryet run across anywhere, you know,
- speakerstuff like that.
- speakerAustralia,
- speakerthe Welsh Calvinist
- speakerMethodist Church over in Wales.
- speakerI got a letter last week asking for
- speakerpermission to translate
- speaker"Presbyterians and Peacemaking: Are
- speakerWe Now Called to Resistance" into
- speakerWelsh Welsh so they can
- speakercirculate a copy to each of their
- speakerchapels in Wales.
- speakerAt the same time it's being roundly
- speakerdenounced and trashed here in this
- speakercountry.
- speakerBut a lot of those papers find their
- speakerway there. The Middle East paper is
- speakerone of those. That was what, 70,
- speaker74? I guess the final was done
- speakeron that one because 73
- speakerwas the year our task force and me
- speakerincluded was was caught in Cairo
- speakerby the by the war
- speakerand couldn't get out.
- speakerFascinating.
- speakerWhat are some of the other things?
- speakerThe work we've done on Central
- speakerAmerica recently,
- speakerstarting in 1982,
- speakerI think is
- speakeris careful landmark
- speakerwork. The stuff we did on political
- speakereconomy, the church-wide
- speakerteleconference
- speakerthat was that was held
- speakerin 1983 and
- speakerthe reports that were done before
- speakerthat.
- speakerI'm
- speakertrying to think exclusively of of
- speakerGeneral Assembly kind of stuff
- speakerthere've been some other things
- speakeralong the way.
- speakerPeacemaking,
- speakerthe believer's calling
- speakerthat we took to the 1980 assembly
- speakerwith both the policy statement and
- speakerthe provision for a structure,
- speakerthe hunger program.
- speakerIt was in what, 74, 75
- speakerthat came out of
- speakercame out of our work.
- speakerJ. P.
- speakerStevens Boycott. Boycott criteria.
- speakerBoycott analysis and criteria work.
- speakerWe did what the General Assembly
- speakerMission Council, because
- speakerthey were the ones who took the
- speakerreport in.
- speakerBut
- speakerI'm also quite
- speakerpleased with the report
- speakerwe did for the General Assembly
- speakerMission Council on the
- speakeranalysis of the church's
- speakerrelationship to transnational
- speakercorporations. That was in 1982,
- speakerI think so that
- speakerwent through the GAMC.
- speakerThose are some of the themes, I
- speakersuppose
- speakerif we go through into this in a
- speakerlater time, I've got some places
- speakerthat chart out annual stuff and
- speakerI could pick up some that I may
- speakerwell have missed
- speakerin this sort of hasty run through.
- speakerWe did a lot of interesting work on
- speakerecology issues,
- speakercertainly back
- speakerin the seventies.
- speakerThat's coming into favor again.
- speakerSo that stuff was published.
- speakerI think the report we did on
- speakerUS-Mexico relations
- speakerin 1981,
- speakeragain, is a
- speakerlandmark piece of work, partly
- speakerbecause we were able to establish
- speakerwhich we exploited two or three
- speakertimes since then, a kind of
- speakerinvolvement relationship with the
- speakerMexican Presbyterian Church,
- speakerwhich is not easy to do around
- speakeranything that smacks of social
- speakerissues, obviously,
- speakerbut similar to that was a
- speakerwas a member of that task force
- speakermet with us and has
- speakerwas a liaison member of the Central
- speakerAmerica Task Force and in 83
- speakerand in 86, and
- speakerthat attempt to build
- speakersome relationships
- speakerwas important. And certainly
- speakerwe can't I can't ignore the
- speakerlast five years that
- speakerwe've struggled with the
- speakerwhat has come to be called Christian
- speakerobedience in a nuclear age.
- speakerWe called
- speakerit Peacemaking II
- speakerand it became branded
- speakeras the as the resistance study.
- speakerBut that process
- speakerand the report coming out of that
- speakerwork is
- speakeris also very fascinating
- speakerand has been a major
- speakereffort in the life of the church.
- speakerAnd you can you can track through
- speakerhere. There's there's a there's
- speakera stream of work that
- speakerrelates to economic policy
- speakerand structures, mission
- speakerresponsibility through investment.
- speakerWe did a report in 76
- speakeron environment,
- speakereconomic justice within
- speakerenvironmental limits as
- speakera major report
- speakerthat was accused of being Marxist.
- speakerAnd it was to some degree, I think
- speakerin a couple of places there were
- speakersome clear socialist
- speakerkind of
- speakerpossibilities built in.
- speakerGoing on through that then
- speakerup into the work on just political
- speakereconomy
- speakerand the the teleconference,
- speakerthe church-wide teleconference and
- speakerthat series that we've just finished
- speakerup at Ghost Ranch,
- speakerwhich out of which a volume will be
- speakerpublished on Reformed Faith
- speakerand Economics over
- speakerthree years.
- speakerThere's a there's a line
- speakerof policy and work around
- speakereconomic structures and justice
- speakerissues that works itself
- speakerout. But there's a clear
- speakerline of comment
- speakerand policy around international
- speakeraffairs, beginning with
- speakerthat Vietnam War thing
- speakermoving into South Africa,
- speakerinto
- speakerCentral America, into the
- speakerMiddle East,
- speakerin such matters, in
- speakersuch matters as
- speakerhuman rights and US responsibility
- speakerin 74,
- speakermaybe something like that.
- speakerAgain, a paper that's still widely
- speakerused even in our own denomination.
- speakerYou know, I put hunger back into
- speakerthat economic structure
- speakerjust as like I would put this
- speakerboth peacemaking the believer's
- speakercalling and then son of peacemaking,
- speakerwhich is now the resistance study.
- speakerThat's another, I guess, hallmark of
- speakermy own sense of how
- speakerI have tried to
- speakerto manage the
- speakersocial policy enterprise in
- speakerthe life of the church.
- speakerI have an almost
- speakerunremitting
- speakerof faith in the capacity
- speakerof bureaucratic organizations
- speakerto stultify, to paralyze,
- speakerto evade creativity.
- speakerI mean, they just, you know,
- speakerbureaucratic organizations like
- speakernothing more
- speakerthan to get hold of a standardized
- speakerprogram and run it over and
- speakerover again and keep
- speakerthe money coming in. They don't like
- speakersurprises, they don't like change,
- speakerthey don't like innovation,
- speakerthey don't like creativity, they
- speakerdon't like the boat rocked, they
- speakerdon't like conflict, anything
- speakerthat threatens.
- speakerSo that part of my
- speakeragenda consciously
- speakerhas been to stay within certain
- speakerareas and to keep generating
- speakernew concepts, new
- speakerapproaches, new
- speakerresponsibilities, new strategies
- speakerto keep the system from
- speakerfrom just getting
- speakerfrozen in concrete and
- speakerlosing its creativity and energies
- speakerand so forth.
- speakerSo we're
- speakeralways looking for some new angle,
- speakersome new way of
- speakerdescribing things, some new
- speakerway of organizing a challenge.
- speakerAnd it
- speakerwas clear to me that the
- speakerit still is clear to me,
- speakerunfortunately, that I think the
- speakerpeacemaking program in our church
- speakerwas in danger, is in danger
- speakerof going the same, bureaucratically
- speakerparalyzed route
- speakerthat the hunger program essentially
- speakerhas.
- speakerGood things are happening,
- speakerbut the sense of excitement
- speakerof moving on, of energy, of creative
- speakervision, of
- speakerof the line out there being a
- speakerhorizon and not a boundary
- speakeris really gone from the hunger
- speakerprogram.
- speakerThe church ponies up 3 million a
- speakeryear or something like that,
- speakerand it's parceled out.
- speakerIt's been mostly for good, creative,
- speakeruseful things.
- speakerBut there's no you know, there's no
- speakerreal there's
- speakerno real sense of vision
- speakerconstantly renewed, of a moving
- speakerhorizon of sort of challenges,
- speakerof new strategies, of new
- speakerpossibilities of engagement.
- speakerOut of the peacemaking program after
- speaker1980 and the initial
- speakersurge of energy and excitement
- speakeraround the church about there was a
- speakerdanger of doing the same thing.
- speakerThe program staff was settling down
- speakerinto normal bureaucratic
- speakermodes of behavior and
- speakertrying to get as much money as
- speakerpossible, brought in in the
- speakeroffering, trying to keep conflict
- speakeras low level as possible, trying to
- speakerdefine peacemaking as broadly as
- speakerpossible so that everybody could say
- speakerwhatever we're doing is peacemaking
- speakerand
- speakergoing over and over again back
- speakerthrough the same strategy of
- speakersending a paper out to the session
- speakerand saying, Would you debate this
- speakerand sign up for and announcement
- speaker1800 sessions
- speakerhave signed this and that.
- speakerAnd
- speakerI just know peacemaking is
- speakera hell of a lot bigger challenge
- speakerthan that and a lot more dynamic
- speakerenterprise than that so
- speakerwhen five years ago
- speakerthese overtures began to get shaped
- speakerabout the tax resistance and
- speakerstuff like that.
- speakerI quite frankly saw it as an
- speakeropportunity to try to
- speakerreenergize
- speakerthe vision and strategy and
- speakerdirection of the peacemaking
- speakerprogram, and that's why we called it
- speakerPeacemaking II was our name
- speakerfor the study.
- speakerAnd
- speakerwhen you see the report that comes
- speakerto this assembly, you will see that
- speakerthere's a lot of emphasis
- speakeron new strategies and
- speakerdirections for the peacemaking
- speakerenterprise to take,
- speakerways that we're persuaded and the
- speakercouncil will,
- speakeryou know, keep a more alert and
- speakerfresh and vital moving on.
- speakerBut that's been another mark
- speakerof what I've
- speakertried to do
- speakerto keep the strategies and the
- speakervision and
- speakerthe imagination fresh
- speakeras you move through these things.
- speakerSo you've got international affairs
- speakerwhere you can track that through all
- speakerthese things.
- speakerYou've got the economic
- speakerlife of the church
- speakerand and then there's this
- speakerarea of,
- speakeryou know, kind of what do you call
- speakerit,
- speakerchurch moral,
- speakermoral questions of sexuality,
- speakerordination, things like that
- speakerthat very often have a social
- speakerpolicy or legislative
- speakerhandles
- speakerthat get us into them.
- speakerThere's an awful lot of
- speakerwork that needs to be done around
- speakerthe sexuality issues as they express
- speakerthemselves politically, for Pete's
- speakersake.
- speakerAnd quite often we've we've tried,
- speakertoo.
- speakerWe always insist on trying to
- speakerincorporate some public policy
- speakerdimension, any of those kind of
- speakerstudies of sexuality
- speakeror ordination
- speakeror I
- speakerguess the one where we
- speakerhad most difficulty bridging any of
- speakerthose things was the fairly major
- speakerwork that went to the 83 Assembly on
- speakerReformed Faith and Politics, which
- speakeris another one of your
- speakerone of your landmarks,
- speakerI guess
- speakerbecause that was a fairly big and
- speakerthat's the first time interesting
- speakerenough. 73 was the first time
- speakerwe developed a companion
- speakervolume of
- speakerstudies of essays
- speakerthat was published independently
- speakeras a part of the Enterprise
- speakerUniversity Press of America,
- speakerpublished the book on Reformed Faith
- speakerand Politics, which
- speakerwas a request for, as a matter
- speakerof fact,
- speakerin this political year,
- speakerpicking up quite a bit.
- speakerThat's the first time we we
- speakertried to develop a
- speakerset of essays that could go along
- speakeranother, I guess, another hallmark
- speakerof my own analysis and
- speakerstrategy for managing this whole
- speakerenterprise.
- speakerIt
- speakercomes out of my incurable
- speakercommitment to be an educator,
- speakerwhich I was for
- speakera while.
- speakerWhat as a pastor, I learned the
- speakerimportance
- speakerback there in Arkansas during those
- speakerdays of earnestly
- speakerworking with folk to try to
- speakerunderstand the background, the
- speakercontext, the scriptural roots, the
- speakerGeneral Assembly's policy
- speakeras the indispensable
- speakercontext for our engagement with each
- speakerother over the differing positions
- speakerwe came to.
- speakerIt's a whole lot easier to say to
- speakerpeople, Let's sit down and see what
- speakerwe can find out about this problem
- speakertogether before we
- speakerstart arguing about whether your
- speakerposition or mine is right.
- speakerThat just seems to me to be an
- speakerinescapable part of the strategy
- speakerfor managing differences,
- speakerand that's education.
- speakerI wanted to do that.
- speakerSo we have tried
- speakerconsciously to do our work
- speakerof social policy over the years
- speakerin a way that
- speakerengaged the educational
- speakerdimensions of church life
- speakerand that created materials that
- speakerwere useful in that
- speakerenterprise along
- speakerwith the policy kinds of statements.
- speakerSo we did the Middle East work in
- speakerthe early seventies.
- speakerThere's a preliminary report, a
- speakerbig background thing.
- speakerYou know, that's that's there
- speakerthat has a lot of a history in the
- speakerbackground, in the context and
- speakertheology preparatory
- speakerto the policy statement.
- speakerSo we've taken a lot of
- speakerflack over the years, not the least
- speakerfrom the Stated Clerk's offices,
- speakerabout the volume of
- speakerthe material we turn in and insist
- speakeron being
- speakerprinted. Stated Clerks don't
- speakerparticularly care for that.
- speakerIt doesn't serve a legislative
- speakerpurpose immediately as they see it
- speakerand it in fact uses their
- speakerbudgets to produce material
- speakerthat is broadly interpretive for the
- speakerchurch as a whole, quite as
- speakermuch as it is for the commissioners
- speakercoming to the assembly who have to vote.
- speakerBut I
- speakerwill give them credit.
- speakerGene Blake and Bill Thompson and
- speakerand Jim Andrews, all three.
- speakerAfter grumbling, griping and
- speakerscreaming about it, still credit and
- speakerthey still headed out there and
- speakerit's picked up and used
- speakera lot of it fairly broadly in the
- speakerchurch's life.
- speakerBut we have tried to create
- speakerbackground information, materials,
- speakersupplementary
- speakerpublications, telecasts or
- speakerwhatever that
- speakerbroadly informed, educated,
- speakerengaged the church.
- speakerThis last thing we did on
- speakerpeacemaking and resistance was the
- speakermost ambitious undertaking
- speakerand the most controversial one we
- speakerever had.
