When and you asked your question, George, and they get repeated and repeated, all right, how about

that we all I want to know. Some estimate that the general counsel for consideration of the event where is standing

now is the committee that was appointed to take up. These demands will meet at three o'clock. It has not met. I understand that there have been some informal consultations among members, but there is no no actual decision

we're considering all.

Yes. Yes.

How is Robert Morgan chosen

by the moderator? The immediate past moderator, who is chairman of the General Council. It's a matter of choosing a man thought to have the gifts to perform well and that son captain who received any reaction upon a telegram or any other way. Presbyterian I have received a few. I don't have them with me. I left them in my room. They're not over three. And no. This is a very small number of communications on a matter that might be thought to be quite controversial. Where they come from? Well, they suggested how they felt the matter should be handled well.

All right, sir. Yes, sir. Why would you want to give you a graphic design off to use that

when you take this job? I'd like you to be my fucking. All right. Let's get back into the water. Margaret, your question or thought

you OK here

now, Shelby, do you have something you were going to answer? I was. You're a lawyer. Well, I didn't introduce Mr. Thompson, and I shouldn't have because we do have some people who have not met him before or he was here the other day. But this is the statement Mr. Thompson was a layman and a lawyer is the stated clerk of the United Presbyterian Church. He is elected to this office and this is his full time. And more than one child, I assure you job and for a term of five years, and you can also run for office again or five years and up. But the term is our term and Presbyterian term, stated the cleric. And as rather descriptive of the job has been said, he is the keeper of the records in the sense of the of the of the church and carries on the correspondence to the church. And does that for a stated period of time. I think that's correct.

Answer is exactly correct. The title the title is designed to keep the incumbent humble

was that

the administrator was wrong. And you say the chief administrative officer of the church, Mr. Thomas of the chief administrative officer of the General Assembly of the United Presbyterian Church, but not of the church. I think he would deny that to. We we

do not have one administrative officer who is chief within the whole church, which means

that you know what it's like to

be this committee and how he'll do what steps might be worked for during the day?

Well, it has several options open to it. It could reject these demands out of hand. I do not anticipate that it will suggest that procedure. It could recognize that these demands are an expression of the kind of frustration that exists within the communities of poor people within this country. That has prompted in them a kind of feeling of desperation and has motivated them to do things that are abrasive to us and are unpleasant to us. But kind of a reaction would concentrate more on the underlying causes of what we have seen and heard here. If that course of action were taken, I think that the church would wish to examine what it has been doing in the field of racial justice and economic justice, and form a judgment as to whether this is adequate. In my opinion, it is not. And seek to do more if this course is followed, the general counsel will not alone make the recommendations

for

the work of the United Presbyterian Church is done through many boards and agencies and through regional adjudicators and local churches to general counsel might recommend things that some of these could do. It might refer certain matters to to others, particularly the boards and agencies at the national level. Frankly, this is the area in which I anticipate that it might choose to act like Matthew. You got a question on that subject.

Would anybody else have to follow Janet

Reno USA today or do you

anticipate that any recommendations of this special committee will be brought to with

the special committee will report to the General Council tonight, the earliest that its recommendations could get to the floor would be sometime Monday. If you have examined the docket of the assembly for money, you know that it's crowded. It might be that we would just take a block of time and and devote some time to this matter and move the others to some later time. If we elect rather to wait until we do some things more rapidly than the docket provides and use time that is saved in that way to discuss this matter, I'm completely unable to predict when that might be. On Soviet times

today, it would be the. Look, there's enough history that says something about the general counsel with the court tomorrow of this committee will be debating, you know, does that lead to something like this?

It's possible. My judgment is that it would not be ready before Monday, but if they have something to report tomorrow, what I've just said would apply equally to tomorrow.

So anyway, um, I haven't got any response to indicate some people may think that the nomination or the general way I kind of knuckled that your people for things, other people by hearing them.

Well, I have heard commissioners express that view, and I'm sure there are people within the church who

hold it personally. What do you think about this?

Well, I think that it would be very difficult for the church to engage these people, particularly Jim Forman, in meaningful dialog without appearing to have acquiesced to his demands. The only way that this impression could be dispelled would be in the in the results of the dialog, and we we can't predict what they're going to be at this juncture. For my part, you all know that Mr. Forman was occupying a part of the headquarters of our church in 475 Riverside Drive. Some of his followers are still there. One of our executives who has described this as picketing this assembly in absentia or long range picketing in the assembly. If we had been in New York and this had occurred, we would have attempted to discuss the matter with Mr. Ford because the General Assembly was in session. It was utterly impossible for us to do so for several reasons. One is the geographical one. The responsible executives are needed here so that the General Assembly can conduct its business. But perhaps the more important reason is a legal or juridical one. When the General Assembly is in session, it is the highest legislative, judicial and administrative body within the church and for any of its employed executives or any of its smaller entities to attempt to handle a matter of this nationwide dimension when it's in session would be very presumptuous on the part of such an individual or group. The general counsel felt that since it was impossible to engage in that dialog in New York, in the judgment of this body, the general counsel, we should attempt to do it here and we should involve the entire General Assembly in the process to the degree that it is possible to do that with over 800 people. Our job and was an effort to do that is your question.

Not on this subject. I think yours is, John.

You know, any commissioner you have left the courtroom. It's interesting because I know of none. There was one commissioner who came to the podium immediately before Mr. Forman was to speak and presented to me a motion in writing, the first part of which was that the invitation should be canceled or withdrawn at that time. I took the position then that the motion was out of order for the reason that the time had been docketed for the General Council and the General Council had a right to use the time in the way that it thought why the man did not ever present the motion from the floor. As those of you who were present, no. And therefore the assembly had no opportunity to act upon it. The assembly, of course, might have differed with me and upheld the man, but the matter was never, never presented. During that same period, which was rather emotionally charged just before this presentation was made. A number of commissioners indicated to me that they would walk out when he rose to speak. I carefully observed the assembly and I saw no one walked out.

Yeah. Janice,.

We understand that all three men form an office, so we're at the meeting last night and we also heard that Foreman was it was quoted as saying he was identified with the creation of the committee that so

I didn't stay that long. The moderator and I were rather weary and we left at one o'clock and.

Maybe we're going to get your question in Art while we can.

The committee reporting this morning that over two years in writing literature, I consider wondering if you know of any applications now pending in Presbyteries elsewhere along the line. Are you sure outside events?

There have been discussions, but to my knowledge, there has been no actual organization in such a church. There are discussions going on right now in Albany, New York, who are in this area. There are others I can't I can't recall place offhand, but I know that in Albany this is being discussed. Roberts nomination tomorrow. There you have the Methodist and the United Church of Christ and a couple of Presbyterian churches. That's the pattern I recall, but I would hope that you didn't rely too strongly on that because I'm just pulling it out of the back of my mind. I'll elaborate a little on that if you want me to. The problem in Albany is that the churches are of varying sizes, and the new amendment provides for the formation of union churches. And for those of you who are not familiar with this term, it's a technical term of art, which means a church in which the member is not a member of a particular denomination. Two denominations or more are related to this church, but the individual member does not identify with one of the denominations, is a member of that church, and the church gives a portion of its benevolence giving to each and its membership is reported in proportion to each. Well, our constitution provides for an equal proportion. In other words, if if three denominations are represented, one third of the members are reported to each and one third of the benevolence giving goes to each. In Albany, we are told that the the churches that are coming together are disproportionate in size, and they're raising a question whether it's whether it ought to be possible for a union church to be formed that would not divide membership and its money equally, but in some proportion related to the comparative sizes of the congregations that came together. This matter was considered by the committee in some detail at the time that the proposal was before it, and the committee determined that it would not include that kind of provision on the theory that it would perpetuate old loyalties. And the purpose of a union church would be thwarted by that kind of provision. Now this has been enacted in you and tick up in discussions. I think I think there will be

no change to general middle of the city.

I don't know this thing about him.

It's an issue that he was here this morning.

I think he was in this building this morning. I don't know the plans to attend the meeting tonight, and I have no idea that, you know. Well, it was reported to me that he was in the building, but I did not see so.

Do you foresee or think that the General Assembly will agree to any of the demands? I mean, how that work?

Well, I have long since learned that I don't guess what a General Assembly's going to do. But let me say that there are things within the demands that that we could respond to. For example, the establishment of a forgotten what the term is international black appeal, or some word like that united black appeal similar, I suppose, to the United Jewish appeal is something that we certainly support. I think I'm just saying that the idea is is something that that is constructive. I'm sure that anyone who was going to consider contributing to it would want to know what was going to be done with the money and who was not administer it and a lot of questions that are not fully answered. This is an idea that has has real merit, I think

that's do you think that the I this is our fault. I you think that's a premium or you or the Vietnam War be any kind of issues.

I'm sure that it will be an issue in our General Assembly has taken rather forthright positions on both of these subjects in the past. And I do not anticipate that they will be altered, but there will be some who disagree with the former policies and who will try to have them altered that in Mexico.

Until yesterday, one person from the Presbyterian Foundation to the action after the foundation had less money than anyone of the four boards national boards. And I'm wondering if you give us any idea what for profit?

Oh my, I have had that figure, but I don't have it in my mind. The committee that reported this morning, of which Davitt Bell was the chairman of, brought all of those facts together, and they were considered carefully by the Committee on Financing the church's mission. Mr. Hugh, it the Reverend Hugh, and it was the staff person for that committee. And I'm sure that if he has the information here at the Assembly, Dr. Hynes can get it for you,

but you is tied up in the regional senators. Church administration will try to get something for you if I can do it.

I would just be relying on my memory of something that we worked on months ago, so I don't think I should tell you because it wouldn't be that reliable.

Yes, sir. I am curious how much influence do you have on the decisions that are made by these assembly being that are being the chief administrator and off the Assembly, just how much influence you have to do?

Well, so far as the form of government is concerned, I have no I have no right to speak on the merits of any issue. I have no vote. I am not so unrealistic is to say that I do not have some influence. This is expressed in my participation in various ordered groups within the life of the church, of which I am a member and some of which I have a vote, as well as voice and others of which I have only voice and no vote.

Do you think that the proposals do now to this? How are you? This technology is going to actually succeed?

I think it has a better prospect this time than it has ever had before. The reason is that while there are several reasons why I say that the Presbyterian Church in the United States is, Dr. Lynn mentioned, has this last year for the first time voted by the three fourths majority of its Presbyterian required for such a

move to

merge with a church that was all. No, no, no part of it was in the in the South, the Reformed Church in America. Now, that proposal did not succeed because the Reformed Church in America does not approve it. But this indicates a new openness to union with other Christian bodies that the Southern Church has not previously exhibited. Our own church has been in the stance of having the door open for a long time, but the Southern Church didn't choose to come through. Now the initiative has been taken by them, and I would anticipate that our church will respond joyously. John, you, Mr. Thompson, are you a member of the Board of Governors governing a religious organization? No, sir. Is anybody on the

General Council of the United?

Presbyterian shared on that notion. Anybody attending? Yes, sir. I mean, I know of only one. There may be others, but the Reverend Gay Rod Wilmore, who is the chairman of our Division Church and Race, an executive of the Board of National Missions and the chief staff officer of the Council on Church and Race, is a member of that board. There may be others, but he may. Do you know, I don't know.

I can find out, or you can call this here, as you can tell us. The Human Society is a public

relations public relations director for IFFCO. Yeah. Thank you. Rabbi Mark Tannenbaum is the chairman of with

more than anything else, Mr. Thompson said. Just like these relaxed were much more fun. Yesterday, it was not relaxed. Bill Bailey.

Oh yeah. Well, all right. I don't think I could stimulate the interest you had yesterday. Yes. Well, thank you very much. But.