So your contribution it is a part of the Heifer project is involved at the school.

It got me through my church, going through your church and my church credit for what I

do for prayer revealed. You call it the chapel and then where is the building?

Locate the whole chapel?

No, I know it's here, but I met with the half of that.

All the Perryville, this building that perryville out from Little Rock.

All right. And there you dedicated the room at Perryville in honor of your sister. Yeah, this is my real banks. And you're saying that you gave because the Lord has helped me giving and sharing a serious business to miss Hawkins. She's been a longtime friend of Heifer Project International. Her caring and generosity are an inspiration. That's great. Now after you. I know that you mentioned about the Heifer project at the present time. What are you involved in brand new?

Well, let's see if I give them a donation every year and I'm supposed to give them $500 that back June. I may just give it all of it, not instead of going somewhere with through three months, I told them I could give you a total amount and it's going to be used for African education. They most of the money I'm giving now is used for education. I think that's what they prefer. But now the money that I give yearly goes through my church. They get credit for it. But this building and this building, I don't think it has. But see, that was the first. But the element they have, critics thought between it, the rule I paid 200000.

From there, they bring African students over here.

They don't pay for them. They come, but they take care of it. That's why I was hoping to. They had been there and met the Africans so I can go every year for them. Do they come for me? And I've seen what they do and I've seen the training and I've been all over Perryville from where they have this look. So you can go out every year and they have a regular gathering where they raise money and you go all around. You can see everything and you can see what they're doing and how the people have pledged to help it.

Some of our children go and have you been able to encourage any students in this particular area?

They have since then one year, but as I understand, they are not interested in participating. They just they went up there because that gave them the privilege. But they were not interested in taking the trade that they needed to learn. They have a project is really it can give to those who don't have most of it and Midnighters section. But over here they were. They didn't need it. They went as a delegate to save it. But they asked about

and think, Well, we had a student from my church to see they work with that eight years.

But if you can get somebody to go who wants the and they will be there, but they have not, not been here. Well, let's see. I just moved back from North Carolina in 82, and I don't know the people set up and been my age. I can't communicate like I would have been. Yeah, but if I had been out there, I would know the situation of all the homes and the people in the church. And I don't have to suggest getting the help that we

have so much farming interests now or dairy farming.

They have it, but it doesn't say what it is. Blacks are not able to colonize on a large scale. So they use to participate in. But there are some blacks, I think, in Arkansas who have sold their farms as well as chicken farm. And if you have it, but you wanted large enough to pay out, right? Yes, I know. Lend money to Batavia Church out there, North Carolina, that's one of the churches that right is. They have a member of the dairy farm and he's done good. But you see if they built that new church, do we have built about five or six churches out there and yet getting Presbyterian? I mean, in the Western District now just west.

Is it still a Western District? Oh, well, under the

new set, I see now, what I don't know is leaving that on the level that they have a little area, but that's the way it was when I was there. The Central, the eastern and the West and the West. The Trinity was built since I've been there, that's in South Bend. Rivers Bill passed it there, but he's in the south, is at Mount Tabor now and that is the church. I help. I didn't give them donations like I did it like I did at my church in Cameron, but I helped them. That said, they have here, this is the unit from our favorite church. This is what they say. That's one of the prayers added by your Venus star that you wouldn't know best, David. But she was not, have you? You knew my Mount Vernon church. This is from. No, she was that the Presbyterian is made in a few years ago. Katrina Hannah, she is very as standard church where she is. What you should have to is from now going on with her husband, Pastor Trinity in Salisbury. But she was a Rudolph man who is she also sort of have a social scene. She was taken there until they were expected to close, so she got a job at Livingston. But after that, the psychosis changed. They got that new leadership, and it's then that she's still in the machine. She works and Scotia. And I do mean it just goes through her chapter in Salisbury.

I enjoyed the show visit that I had on John Smith's campus. We were there in nineteen ninety two. I believe it was oh, ninety one. Oh yeah, we visited the library right there. Oh, you go to see they have some theses and some other records of some of the earlier activities of our church. And so we went there. I enjoyed going there. The librarian was great. Nice. Well, you know, that's a new thing. That was a little that way. Yes, that's what it is.

They say they have really built a lot of buildings since I was there and they have a swimming pool. You should go back and visit them pretty soon. Well, I was there last year. You saying they had me? They come, I had to go get several awards because they know best how I went. I was there in 92 and yes, 92. That's it. That's what last year, and that's how I made that place. What is the major change and that close? I had been there for the last three or four years. I suppose, you know, Ma is from New York, and he's an outstanding alumnus from Smith, and he's now the leader in my class for our class reunion. And every time I have a class reunion, I try to say the man is so bad out of class and doing top. He has given he has given considerably to.

Well, you know, Mrs. Hawkins, I really admire and I think you have given an example to blacks as to what one can do with money when it is properly managed. You see, many times I don't feel that some of us were quite aware of what could be done with money. You make it grow and therefore you have allowed it to grow. Your husband's bidding for back there and you have used it wisely, so you have really been rewarded.

Well, one thing and one thing that we could not have had on back on the credit and I found large client to teach their savior just and I don't waste my water who never let me let it go down the drain.

I say, you're a recycler, huh?

I say the clean and my sister didn't do that, but that's my habit. But I'll let them say I have been like this and I live by myself longer than I live with some of the girls. My husband was just with this five years. And therefore, I had to learn to say, but I was my sisters. Then I've been there all my life.

But you were born recycler, you know?

Oh yes. And. As you've been, you read that it just has to be something that they knew. It's not that I don't make more money than other people. I just don't spend it like they do.

And then you have it has been worthwhile

put to use. Yes. I didn't go see it. Oh, see the trip. I didn't take long trips to spend my money. I don't do a lot of social activism now. I tell you one thing maybe I shouldn't have done, but we didn't have a social life at school when I graduated and I got a chance to get in. I say, you choose. I mean, I didn't. This is what I said when I first got it. I said, No. Listen, that one hundred dollars I give a year, I can give it to the church, as we call it, that I just be going to some social activity. And I said, I'm not putting my money there. And one of the things that makes you popular, I say, I don't want to be black box and be top notch as well. But now I realize I should have accepted it, Charlotte, than they are because it is for your education. But I would have gone with that omega too. That's when I had the privilege. Oh, now sometimes you see you, you're a little too narrow minded. You don't think wisely. I kind of regret I didn't accept. In Charlotte, but I didn't. They have done

some very good things. They have helped to do some of the things that the church.

But just see that it was Charlotte, it was Johnson C. Smith who pushed me that professors push me. The church members pushed me. I'm going to say this that if I would give it a bad acrylic other than Reverend Bob, but getting me started, Johnson C. Smith is the one that made it possible for me to go this far. Reverend Spears tried to get one of their own nation members to come to me to get this money for the foundation before I left so that they can get credit for it. And the man didn't come and he was disappointed. But when I came back and saw I was great because I said, I'm going to make contact with Arkansas to see now. I didn't want in the Presbyterian piece that I didn't want the Southern Church because they were by headquarters at Atlanta. They had merged. So I was including my money in the southern church, so I kept inquiring, despise or wrote me. And when I got a letter from him and I answered, he was right up here to see me.

I was sure he was.

He came back three times and I gave money to help it. You'll see it in one of the

records and two to schools in India. Had he ever visited Stillman?

No, I've never been there. I haven't been to Atlanta.

Only no since. No money is in the Tuscaloosa, Alabama

is that way. Well, where's bones academy?

Boggs Academy is in Alabama.

I have been there, but I

see Stillman is to the Southern Church, which Arthur C. Smith says to you

think that's why I haven't been to stand,

but you should go. It's doing the kinds of things that you see Jackson Smith's doing and it it needs nurturing. But it is. It is a good school and they have learned you have some other kinds of people going there and it has really grown. I had an opportunity to go there too last year before we have been to all of them. And I was glad to see that it had progressed to some degree. So you have to think a little bit about us over there.

This is the point. You don't say anything to me about it. How you think I'm doing.

I know I've just said this week that merged. I would like you to do that, Stillman. And I mean, you have an affinity for Jackson, which is good, but you see, this is Hawkins, as you have said, as far as the church as a whole. We African-Americans must put our shoulders and push forward. That is what some need to do, right? So Stillman is serving in Alabama, doing the same kinds of things that Justice Smith has done over here. I believe Justice Smith is the strongest and we have had more and down it and possibly has had more help than Stillman has. But they are trying to do the same kinds of things for our people.

But, you know, I'm sure I would have been interested in Stillman had I been involved in the southern juries but not being in the southern. I could see

your point of difference. But now, since we merge years, you just have a little glitter in your eyes,

as you said, you know you can see it. We are trying to hide it. I know that I do caters to the USA because we live right here in Richard Allen, but that the gas and came and ate at the dining room. I've never been in the center of it. That's my reason for doing it. I have never lived in a place where the church segregated Earth, and I even went with me to a meeting in Little Rock long before integration into one of the delegates came loose from California. We were late and we had a room together. She was my novel black and that was wrong. And she and I became friends, and when she married, I said her gift. When I married, she sent me a gift. So what I'm saying, I have to admit I didn't get us to this island in church because of so many things I knew they did. We had a church that was organized that had Kannapolis. It was a Sunday school and they had some Presbyterian ministers will come in and they told those folks that they stopped building those records, that they were Daniels. And, you know, they just gives them more. So I know that and they should

have been some, some experiences. I would like to hope that just as a model, know what you have done and what you have meant to be. I still use the word blacks, the African-American. It would also stand as a model to those of us over on that side. It would have to be a continuous something, but the mentoring and role models are important. Yes. And this is why I say that maybe you

can find a level. May I say this? I won't be able to do it. But if you contact me next, you and I will have so much because of you, I'm doing it out.

But that's all right

because of some individuals where I do everything, maybe, but because of your interest in your outlook and you see that we all should work together. And I don't think I should just segregate your school because of what it was, but less think of what it is.

Yeah, I would send you some information. Yes, you see. And I mean, but as I'm saying that you can be a model. Yes, this history will go for you that you have done, which can stand as a light. We have to be those.

Yes. And Christians

are light.

And I thank you for being bold enough to say that you hadn't been. You wouldn't get into this. I'll give you a I think we are on the same wavelength. Now this is something. Yes, I have work that backs don't do too much around here. The Southern Poverty Law Center, you see, the play is destroyed, whether they are built a few years ago and there is this to look locally. Yeah. This is the building they built, but the Klan that destroyed it. And I was helping that somehow up. And North Carolina. I don't know. I decision, but when I came here, I continue to give donation. So when the building was destroyed, they were asking donations and I gave them about foundation to help build the building. And now each year, I've been given them for about four or five years a thousand.

Yes, see, I belong to those little girls at that church were members of the knights of that parents were members of the National Coalition. This is a 100 black women, and we set aside as an organization to have some kind of ceremony because of those children. Yes. Well, and I didn't know that that was the background, but they threw that bomb in that church and those children were there. I have to say to them

and say all that that they did is in March. This year has sent me books and they brought me with something different. But I have to write and tell them I'm not leaving anything in my will, but I'm given that now because when I die, they won't get it anyway. That's why I changed my little girl. I put this money in these churches because I, my sister will may outlive me. And when that is, all that money will be used and the lawyers and people will get it out. So I'm giving it now.

Thank you. I really appreciate. Yeah, because it's pointless to keep it over here and you would know what happened as it is now.

You know? Yeah, that's why I'm giving it, because I have given, I hope, the little devil Smith fifty thousand bad grade nine is six seconds. They have now the thought that forty thousand and I'm less just eight is six. It is just since the Eighties, but all the whole that and all and half has gotten rid forty thousand little over. But my church?

Well, this is one thing that I mean, I'm not saying to solicit. But if this particular project that we're trying to do now to. Put the African-American into the history of the churches, I told you in the beginning. The general church gave a small amount of money for us to do the job. The problem that we have now is what are we going to do to get it credit? There will be some that we're going to ask for some help at that particular point that there might be enough left in here, but we have to think about the present and the distribution of this particular project that we about to deal with now. So I don't know just where, where we are. We're going to make our final report to the General Assembly. This coming General Assembly. I will go to General Assembly along with Mr. Grigsby from Charlotte, with the two representatives that will go to be there with Mr. Reese makes his final report. So after that, we don't know just what is going to happen and there might be something that. We can do it together

with you, thank you.

I don't know this, but I'm saying we don't know. We don't know where you

just let

me know. Then the other thing that we were concerned about as we move around in Historical Foundation building in Pennsylvania, we went in there and Clinton Marsh was our first black moderator. Yes. So we said, Well, we see all these big pictures hanging up in there. Of all the moderators, they were ours. We're out where black folk. What did you see, Thelma Thelma there? And now Joan Campbell and how to go there? A pastor? Yes. Lance Bottoms. And again, we they went on to tell us who had donated, you know, having those posters pictures place. Oh yes. But have we done anything to have

in the batter's box, in the bus and travel with us? White folks are dying for their people and we won't do it. Then we sit back and think white folks are to do said they'd show us up, but we'd do it ourselves.

So I don't know what has happened to have. That has gone so that that might be something else that we could do. Oh yeah. And the Historical Foundation to have a dance picture hanging and all the rest of it hanging up there with the rest of those moderators. But I'll see what I get there next. I've been there on the last day of this month. Well, did it

particularly to day down, get us that she ran a book? Does she write something up on black? She was supposed to

have thinks there is something in the works, someplace I

don't know.

Now I know this has been finished, although I

believe it estimates that my name is. But I don't know, was she accepted or not? But it didn't matter. Yesterday finds out everything out there is. She just sent it, so she just told me she hadn't heard. And since you were here, I was

just saying, Well, I will try our last

series. That's just some of the work I did in my school.

I'm going to look at it in just a minute. So you're interested in this book, but you know, there's some

years and and and I tell you, would you wait until ninety four for a donation? Oh yeah. Now, because I have too much. You've done

everything

now, but I still have to give about four or five days. It will have happened with all this love and I have given it's goes to power. Not only the justices will

let you adjust to the almost, and I'm sure they

will. And I got to get three thousand on my chest and I just got others. So that thought that I wanted to.

But I just wanted to make you aware now that's why

I'm saying best shows. I don't get half of my income, so they don't take, but just so much. That's right. That's right. And they carried over, but had the best doesn't keep me the best saying that they will take any offer. And if it's not even on a check, that's right. So that's what I'm saying. I have never had any trouble because I've been known and I get the check is valid, isn't it?

Well, you're straight. Yes, you will end up straight.

Well, yes, because I have had them to send back and I took it till it didn't come there, but they said they knew that was real. It's just sometimes you have people not right in the government, but they had to send me a survey and when I answered this survey, it was all over. I told them to get. Now one last question in.

Do you have any records, the minutes of pictures and you are sharing them, so I am going to take them back? Oh, now what? Whoever did you want? Well, we'll go through these and make a few selections before I leave for you. What other things do you still appreciate about the Presbyterian of the Senate as as of today? Are there some things that you appreciate about the Senate as it is now?

Well, I'll tell you one of the most important things that has impressed me that the Jim the Senate took a stand against homosexuality. And I have wanted to talk with someone. I said, I may have to get a moderate son, but please encourage the senators and the Presbyterian the all the churches will. I believe in the scripture of the Old and New Testament. Do not go along with homosexuality because God has never intended God to be. If we believe in this scripture, and that is one thing that I like to say, my church take a stand up stand firm for what price represents and what God has directed through the Old Testament and the New Testament for Christ that go by as followers of his kingdom and to share in giving the information to the youth because our black youth have just gone terrible. What can the church do to try to save them? They don't accept the advice. They do let their parents let them do and they see what their parents do. So they do.

They are a couple of things that I feel that we are going to have to do in order to try to stem the tide, and we're going to have to provide for more youth activities. Yeah, if you notice now, Miss Hawkins, you don't have your Girl Scouts, you don't have you fellowships in your churches like we used to have. I worked with you in the church and some of the children or even like to go to camps? And I work to get our camp integrated up there and we have a very camp, good camp and program. They don't go to that. Oh, the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts to camp, five girls to Werribee KS. All of them used to have youth programs in which children were involved. They were taught their ideas. They were taught some things to do for their their recreation in spare time. But these children have so much spare time until it's it's not used in the right way. So what do we do? We are on the streets and we're getting involved in other things. So the church is going to have to take a different go back and and bring the mountain back to Mohammed and do something for the youth within their church structure.

But don't you think the basic travel stems from the whole?

Oh yes, we'll see. We can't. We can't deal that. So the church has got to help this to make the folks think a little bit more about the home, the home as we knew it. It's no longer. It's which I regret, but we don't have that kind of a base that the home used to have. So we have to strengthen some other places that can do some of the same kinds of things well at home there.

Well, I think the trouble with the home, they have failed to follow the teachings of Christ, so they want to do it their way rather than the way we are taught to do it through the scripture. Now at Holmes Chapel, we have an assistant minister. I task that came over from a Methodist church who had the bishop had let him go and he visited who sat in, some of the members knew him and so he was invited to go to the presbytery. And it wasn't long before he was accepted. And of course,

he'd have to go to school.

Oh, he didn't know he was already the man. So he was a graduate from the college near the University of Arkansas, and he had also already taken the ministry and one of his churches. What he had to do was to go through the Presbyterian and take its regular procedures. So he was able to comply with the Presbyterian within a year. So he became our pastor. Now we had real members had to tell him some of the things that we didn't think he was fatherly because he did some things

that he wasn't quite aware of know the basic.

And one thing, though, he was anxious, the most methods in Baptist tell you, you got the faith. And that's one thing he at the folks know they couldn't. Just it alone. But he's done a good job.

Well, that's good if he's willing to try to marry.

And the Reverend Matthew, who is the sister, passed the week to the Presbyterian and studied enough to preach. He can preach in a judge, but they can't perform the same mitt. No, but he can't supply well, and he takes the children to these men. He goes the more great gold, all the men who were ever the Juke goats, he gets them and he takes them. So our children aren't represented in all

our meetings where this is good because that's what my children and that's the kind of experiences that I had, and it meant a whole lot to them and develop friendships and everything else. And we go along

with we have a good start in the school. We have the young people's meeting. We have Bible study. Well, everything, Neal, is that the Presbyterian class we urge a nurse reverend branch to do is say he has to do a lot of things because it goes to the Presbyterian and it isn't so favorable for him and he doesn't.