Chris Shelton oral history, 2019.

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    This is Elizabeth Wittrig and Sonia Prescott and we're speaking with
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    Chris Shelton on November 12th, 2019.
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    So, Chris, if you just want to start by telling us a little bit of what your experience
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    has been in the LGBTQ movement within the church.
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    Yes. So I was born and raised Southern Baptist in
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    Fort Worth, Texas, which is not necessarily the easiest environment to grow
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    up as a queer kid.
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    I was very fortunate in my formative years that the church that I was a part of was a
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    warm, spirited, good natured family church.
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    There wasn't, it didn't have that edge that that many
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    churches have about, you know, trying to fight some kind of political battle or,
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    you know. It just was a steady and friendly
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    community and also a community where it
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    was pretty clear that let's just not talk about anything controversial.
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    Let's not talk about anything that might be difficult.
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    Let's not ask questions that get too uncomfortable.
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    And so, you know, that was an okay environment to
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    be in because I had other environments, most
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    especially the world of the high school theater where it
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    happened that my drama teacher was also a Methodist youth minister.
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    But she was very progressive and very forward in
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    how she felt that the spirit made room for all people.
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    That whosoever really means whosoever.
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    So I got to sort of hear and hold that and journey my way through high school and
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    self discovery and coming out to self without
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    some of the deep, deep pain that I think many
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    other folks who were growing up in the 80s and 90s felt.
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    Same time, I just had really no concept that there was any church out there that got
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    this. And when
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    I was in college, I began my drama degree.
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    My voice teacher was a member of a Presbyterian Church USA congregation
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    and she invited me to come and audition to sing in the
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    church choir. And so I thought, awesome, this is great.
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    I can both go to church, get paid for it and
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    not have to be in the Southern Baptist environment, etc..
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    I can go just be anonymous, slip into the background and
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    not have to worry about ever being noticed in church again.
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    And so.
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    So I did.
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    And it the first day in that
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    church, the first Sunday in that church was the first time I'd ever heard a woman preach.
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    And you know that just immediately some blinders
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    flew off. I thought, wow, this is a different setting.
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    I didn't realize, you know, and little by little, you know, I became
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    more and more aware of the social justice point of view of that particular congregation.
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    Trinity Presbyterian Church in Denton, Texas, an extraordinary and beautiful
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    congregation. I came to realize that they were the home of PFlag
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    in Denton. A number of the women in that church especially
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    had been very active in providing support to folks journeying
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    with AIDS, which in the 90s, of course, was, you know, a
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    profound and profoundly necessary journey that
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    many churches avoided. And so little by little, I just began
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    to gather I am in a different place.
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    This is this is a place where I can be me.
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    Wasn't quite sure how much I wanted or needed to be me in
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    that place. I still kind of wanted to be quasi
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    anonymous and come and go. Somewhere
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    in my college journey, I'd have to look
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    exactly at the year, but with the death of Matthew Shepard, there
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    was a renewed openness in me, a renewed openness in the congregation to to
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    speak to the painful realities of homophobia.
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    And, you know, it was in that space that I sort
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    of began coming out to folks. Not in any let me pull
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    you aside and have a conversation kind of way, but just in just
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    being myself a little bit more freely, what probably most of everybody had already surmised
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    anyway. And you know, so.
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    And it was also during that time that the denomination was
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    journeying through the
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    establishment of Amendment B, G-6.0106b,
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    and then the beginnings of the attempts to remove G-6.0106b from
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    the Book of Order. And I remember my first real understanding of of broader
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    Presbyterian polity came I think shortly after
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    the Albuquerque Assembly where one of the
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    women in our congregation tearfully brought up in the prayers of people
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    that day that the action of the General Assembly had not been in
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    a direction of inclusiveness.
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    And I didn't know what a General Assembly was.
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    I didn't quite know how that was working. But all this is happening in Grace Presbytery.
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    And at the time, Grace Presbytery only had one More Light congregation.
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    Oh, and I mean, it was
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    on Cedar Springs and I
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    can't remember the name of it right now. Tod Freeman was their pastor, so I remember that
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    much. Near Love Field in Dallas. But it was the only sort of openly,
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    forwardly More Light congregation.
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    There were several congregations that had begun to adopt the Covenant Network
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    identity, but sort of, you know, as
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    is true for much of North Texas, kind of trying to hold the
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    attentions of such theological diversity and
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    political diversity and trying to find their way through in that time. And so Trinity
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    had not named itself a More Light church, but in every aspect was
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    clearly an embracing community.
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    Janie Spar came and visited the presbytery.
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    One of the members of our church had a a gathering with Janie and,
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    you know, a rich conversation with her.
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    And, of course, the General Assembly was held during
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    that time in Fort Worth. And then going to the assembly that year was
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    my first experience of the assembly. That was 98 maybe.
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    And, you know, it was in that time that, you know, there I
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    was first able to hear the hearings that were happening in the assembly committees and
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    the the passionate voices speaking out on the floor.
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    I became involved in More Light
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    especially and sort of tangentially in That All May Freely Serve as they
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    were trying to find their place in the Presbytery of Grace.
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    And, you know, but at this point, I still saw
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    myself as a church member who just moved through
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    the church. And, you know, I was I was feeling more and more at
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    home. I had taken membership, actually, I had never been baptized in
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    the Baptist church of my upbringing. So I was baptized there at Trinity.
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    And, you know, so I was really starting to own that, but still had no
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    concept there would be a vocational journey within
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    the church or me.
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    But in some time in late 98,
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    partly in reflection on the assembly
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    and the experience of the spirit in that space, and along
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    with several other things, I began to sense a call to ministry and, you
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    know, brought that to my pastor and to folks there in the congregation.
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    And, you know, received immediate and just grace
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    filled support from minute one from them.
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    So I came under the care of Grace Presbytery. It was an interesting time, I
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    think in Grace Presbytery that
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    many of these truths were unspoken but I know that the chair of
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    CPM at that time was a gay man.
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    I don't think that that was
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    spoken, but it was true.
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    I could identify other people on the CPM who
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    were clearly from supportive congregations.
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    Yeah.
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    So, you know, there was in
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    that space where you might not expect a progressive voice there was a very clear
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    openness. During some of those seasons
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    when Grace Presbytery would vote on the amendments,
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    their votes would be razor thin, you know, two
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    hundred and four in favor and two hundred and six against or something.
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    It's a number that's this in my head.
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    So I started my own ministry journey, came under care of the Presbytery
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    and of that the church.
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    And you know, I chose for myself that my
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    own path seemed most right to sort
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    of keep
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    within. A sort of don't ask, don't tell roll.
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    Partly because in those days there was no clear path for
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    someone who outed themselves.
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    And I felt a handful of of competing issues.
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    You know, on the one hand, yeah, there's job
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    security and all that kind of thing. On the other hand, I also felt a real deep
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    sense of seeing the number of people in my community of care who were functioning in a
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    sort of don't ask, don't tell way and knowing they have to be those people, there
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    have to be the people who endure the closet to
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    journey through and make space for the closet doors to open.
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    And so for me, I felt that that was that was part of my calling in
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    that time was to, you know, to try
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    to find my way into the system, to be a presence, to be a model, to
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    be a vote, to be, you know, to be there for some other queer person
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    who needed someone on the other side of
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    the ordination journey to be there for them.
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    I will say that I know there were folks in
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    the journey along the way in the movement who
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    saw that choice on my part as
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    an unfaithful choice. I
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    was taken to task by colleagues for
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    choosing my own safety over
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    the movement. I was sharply
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    reprimanded by some colleagues within the movement that what I was choosing was
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    unfaithful.
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    I obviously strongly disagree, but
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    I say that not because their choices
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    were unfaithful. But, you know, we have to honor every
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    choice in the journey and honor the discernment that we each feel that
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    the spirit gives us.
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    And so, you know, I did not make those choices only for job
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    security. I really looked around at the people, not only the
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    people in my Presbyterian life, but the teachers that I had that I knew that work that
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    in suburban north Texas could not come out
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    of the closet for fear of, you know.
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    But but yet they were there and they were impactful on my life.
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    They showed me that I was going to be okay.
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    You know, that I was going to be able to bring art and
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    kindness and compassion into the world in some way and be myself.
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    So hold on. Hang true.
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    Keep moving, you know.
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    And so that's that's how I chose to keep moving to
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    be that kind of person and that kind of prescence.
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    And that continued into my eventual call.
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    I was ordained by Grace Presbytery in
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    2004 and into service to three congregations in
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    the Presbytery of the Palisades.
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    So here in New Jersey, again, living in a
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    don't ask, don't tell kind of way. I was living with my partner at the time, but I
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    was pastor of three churches and three churches or three different towns.
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    So it was very easy for me to live in yet a fourth town so that I
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    had my own space, my own grocery store and all of that.
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    And and, you know.
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    The queer frame of issues was not the primary
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    frame that I functioned out of.
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    That being said, I also knew that
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    one of my organists I could tell
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    needed me to be who I was the way I was being who I was.
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    Another one of the my congregations there was a
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    woman who would eventually, you know, discover that the church
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    was a safe place for her to create
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    the quilt square for her brother who had died of AIDS.
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    And, you know, she needed that space.
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    And I think I helped create that space, you know,
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    by being who I was, by being, you know, even with some
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    some boundaries there, you know, it
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    started to become less of a don't ask, don't tell.
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    And the more I'll use Jesus language, let them who have eyes to see,
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    see who have ears to hear, hear.
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    And, you know, even including one Sunday morning where
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    I preached and, you know, one of my churches was a pretty conservative space
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    in many respects.
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    And I preached a sermon on Jesus
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    and the woman coming to his feet, washing his
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    feet with her tears and with her hair.
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    And there's a place there in that text where Jesus turns to
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    the Pharisees at the other end of the table and says, Do you see this woman?
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    And there isn't an assumption in the text that she's a sinner, read
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    prostitute or whatever you want to read that.
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    And Jesus does not say, do you see the label that is
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    upon her? But do you see her, you know.
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    And I preached what I think was a very forward text
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    in a very forward sermon.
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    And you know there was a man in the congregation in his 80s
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    and he completely misheard me.
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    Oh, my goodness. He completely misheard me. I still to this day don't know how he
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    misheard me. During prayers of the people, he stood up.
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    And it happened that there had been an article in The Bergen Record, the newspaper
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    in Bergen County that Sunday morning.
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    I had not seen it. And it was on the front page of the religion section.
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    And it was about how the Presbyterians and the Methodists and I think was the
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    Episcopalians that year were all going to be dealing with the question
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    of queer inclusiveness in ordination.
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    And he held up this article and he said, you know, we need to
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    listen to the pastor this morning because he's telling us that there are Pharisees out
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    there who are getting this wrong.
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    And they're in our own denomination.
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    And there are mules who are trying to come in because God didn't create
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    the mule. Human beings created mules.
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    And that's why mules can't reproduce.
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    And that's why homosexuals can't reproduce because they're created by human
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    beings, not by and just this whole thing.
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    And I'm standing there and here's this man calling me a mule, and I'm his pastor.
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    You know, and and I'm standing there in the room knowing my organist,
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    a closeted gay man, is over here hearing this.
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    And I'm knowing that there are other people in the room because it's a room with human
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    beings in it whose lives are touched by queer folk, even
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    if they can't talk about it. And here's this guy, you know, one of the
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    elder statespersons of the church who's standing up and saying, God
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    did not create you. If you're queer, you are a mule in the eyes of
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    God.
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    You know, I have just preached this sermon that's supposed to, you know, have solved all
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    of that, you know. And, you know, do we see the humanity in each other,
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    you know?
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    And so, you know, it was just it was a a bracing moment of recognizing
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    how much work there is to do, how much work of presence,
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    of truth telling, of moving beyond closet walls.
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    But while, you know and I couldn't I couldn't come
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    out on the floor in that moment.
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    I didn't feel that I could anyway, you know, and I I
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    sought to defuze him by barely acknowledging, but by saying,
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    you know what page is that on in the paper again.
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    OK. So that's on page five. Are there other things we want to talk about today?
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    You know, but, you know, that was one of my rawest moments of sort of, you know,
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    homophobia just. Coming.
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    Coming right at me.
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    A pastoral word about him, his
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    name is George. He also was dealing at that time with the
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    extraordinary grief of having lost his wife of 50 something years.
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    And, you know, I knew that he was speaking, he
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    was turning to an issue that he thought he could rear
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    himself up about as a way of avoiding the deep grief that he wasn't willing to see.
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    And so, you know, it also made me come back and recognize
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    all the ways that homophobia does present
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    itself in our churches, in our places as
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    an easy way to escape the real stuff that we need to be talking about.
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    And the real pains and human realities that just
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    linger under the surface. And if only I can talk about something else and
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    not have to talk about, you know, so there is a coming out for
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    all of us that's there.
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    I'd serve in those churches
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    for four years and then join the staff of the Hudson River Presbytery,
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    where I served as the associate general presbyter
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    for four years after that. And and in that season also began up
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    more of a coming out, more of a let them who have eyes to see, see.
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    I felt it was very important in that role to continue to be as
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    present to the conservative members of the presbytery as it was
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    to be present to the liberals in the Hudson River Presbytery.
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    There were far more folks on the progressive end of the spectrum than on
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    the conservative end.
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    So it was a different pastoral balance.
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    But, you know, holding that
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    space and being back to, four
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    years after when I would leave Hudson River and eventually come here to Broadway in
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    Manhattan, the one church that every member of their congregation signed a card
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    and set me well wishes was one of the most conservative churches in the
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    presbytery. You know, because it's just as
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    Jesus wanted them to see that woman, it's also so important to see the
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    lives of the people, you know, who are who are theologically
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    against me. But, you know, in our humanity, I think we
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    are driven to care for each other in one way or another if we see each other.
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    Serving the Hudson River, I did serve as
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    one of the overture advocates for what
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    would eventually become the the
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    end of G-6.0106b. And so
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    had taken part in in that unique process
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    being a part of that kind of work at the General Assembly you
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    know, with people coming together from many different Presbyteries to organize
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    one common presentation for the Church
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    Order Committee, at that assembly was
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    a deeply moving, rich,
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    rich, rich opportunity to hear the different perspectives around
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    the room and the ways that we all felt called to approach, whether it was as
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    an outright call to justice, whether it was a call driven
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    by scripture, whether it was a call driven by our humanity, by our individual
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    stories, by the stories of loved ones, by the folks we had seen shot out, or
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    the folks that needed to be lifted up.
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    You know, at really hearing that around
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    that table, so beautifully guided by Tricia Dykers Koenig.
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    And the way that that, you know, she I
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    think more than anybody was able to just hear and know all
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    the many perspectives that were around the denomination and try
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    to hold all of those in mind and at heart.
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    You know, I was so grateful for her leadership then.
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    And I think that the report that we offered at
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    that committee I think was meaningful.
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    I think it was articulate. I think it said so much from so
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    many, you know, it was half an hour or however long the committee gave us.
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    But, you know, I think it was impactful time.
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    So, you know, there's there are many memories
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    along this way. Many people that I hope that
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    you've already spoken with or will continue to speak to.
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    You know, I've mentioned Janie, who's clearly out there and and,
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    you know, a luminary, you know.
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    I think Mieke Vandersall, who's a dear friend of mine and a seminary
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    classmate, you know, we've had different journeys
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    to strike along the way. But I think always held a clear and
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    integral sense that that though our calls were different, that we needed each
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    other. I would eventually work very closely with Mieke.
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    I was chair of the board for Presbyterian Welcome here in the city.
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    I think for six years I lost track somewhere along the way.
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    And so in my last couple of years in Hudson River and my first
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    couple of years here at Broadway
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    to serve in that space and to to watch as Presbyterian
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    Welcome, really sought to have
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    a local focus in terms of what our
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    church is here in the city and metro area can be doing, but also
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    began more and more to start imagining what's the what's our calling into
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    the future? Who are the the folks who are out there
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    who when these, you know, prohibitions fall,
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    who's out there ready to step in to serve us?
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    The folks like Bertram, the folks like, you know,
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    like Ashley Birt, the and
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    others who stood at the door and didn't quite make it
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    in the denomination long enough, who chose other paths as well.
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    But, you know, Presbyterian Welcome sought to create a space for the pastoral
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    community.
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    The formative pastoral community of queer pastors seeking calls
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    had a place to root and to be grounded in each other and to trust in
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    one another and to see that, you know, that they were not alone.
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    So Mieke's role as pastor in
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    that space. I think is profoundly important.
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    And so many others whose names, I'm sure, come up again and again.

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