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Chris Shelton oral history, 2019.
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- speakerThis is Elizabeth Wittrig and Sonia Prescott and we're speaking with
- speakerChris Shelton on November 12th, 2019.
- speakerSo, Chris, if you just want to start by telling us a little bit of what your experience
- speakerhas been in the LGBTQ movement within the church.
- speakerYes. So I was born and raised Southern Baptist in
- speakerFort Worth, Texas, which is not necessarily the easiest environment to grow
- speakerup as a queer kid.
- speakerI was very fortunate in my formative years that the church that I was a part of was a
- speakerwarm, spirited, good natured family church.
- speakerThere wasn't, it didn't have that edge that that many
- speakerchurches have about, you know, trying to fight some kind of political battle or,
- speakeryou know. It just was a steady and friendly
- speakercommunity and also a community where it
- speakerwas pretty clear that let's just not talk about anything controversial.
- speakerLet's not talk about anything that might be difficult.
- speakerLet's not ask questions that get too uncomfortable.
- speakerAnd so, you know, that was an okay environment to
- speakerbe in because I had other environments, most
- speakerespecially the world of the high school theater where it
- speakerhappened that my drama teacher was also a Methodist youth minister.
- speakerBut she was very progressive and very forward in
- speakerhow she felt that the spirit made room for all people.
- speakerThat whosoever really means whosoever.
- speakerSo I got to sort of hear and hold that and journey my way through high school and
- speakerself discovery and coming out to self without
- speakersome of the deep, deep pain that I think many
- speakerother folks who were growing up in the 80s and 90s felt.
- speakerSame time, I just had really no concept that there was any church out there that got
- speakerthis. And when
- speakerI was in college, I began my drama degree.
- speakerMy voice teacher was a member of a Presbyterian Church USA congregation
- speakerand she invited me to come and audition to sing in the
- speakerchurch choir. And so I thought, awesome, this is great.
- speakerI can both go to church, get paid for it and
- speakernot have to be in the Southern Baptist environment, etc..
- speakerI can go just be anonymous, slip into the background and
- speakernot have to worry about ever being noticed in church again.
- speakerAnd so.
- speakerSo I did.
- speakerAnd it the first day in that
- speakerchurch, the first Sunday in that church was the first time I'd ever heard a woman preach.
- speakerAnd you know that just immediately some blinders
- speakerflew off. I thought, wow, this is a different setting.
- speakerI didn't realize, you know, and little by little, you know, I became
- speakermore and more aware of the social justice point of view of that particular congregation.
- speakerTrinity Presbyterian Church in Denton, Texas, an extraordinary and beautiful
- speakercongregation. I came to realize that they were the home of PFlag
- speakerin Denton. A number of the women in that church especially
- speakerhad been very active in providing support to folks journeying
- speakerwith AIDS, which in the 90s, of course, was, you know, a
- speakerprofound and profoundly necessary journey that
- speakermany churches avoided. And so little by little, I just began
- speakerto gather I am in a different place.
- speakerThis is this is a place where I can be me.
- speakerWasn't quite sure how much I wanted or needed to be me in
- speakerthat place. I still kind of wanted to be quasi
- speakeranonymous and come and go. Somewhere
- speakerin my college journey, I'd have to look
- speakerexactly at the year, but with the death of Matthew Shepard, there
- speakerwas a renewed openness in me, a renewed openness in the congregation to to
- speakerspeak to the painful realities of homophobia.
- speakerAnd, you know, it was in that space that I sort
- speakerof began coming out to folks. Not in any let me pull
- speakeryou aside and have a conversation kind of way, but just in just
- speakerbeing myself a little bit more freely, what probably most of everybody had already surmised
- speakeranyway. And you know, so.
- speakerAnd it was also during that time that the denomination was
- speakerjourneying through the
- speakerestablishment of Amendment B, G-6.0106b,
- speakerand then the beginnings of the attempts to remove G-6.0106b from
- speakerthe Book of Order. And I remember my first real understanding of of broader
- speakerPresbyterian polity came I think shortly after
- speakerthe Albuquerque Assembly where one of the
- speakerwomen in our congregation tearfully brought up in the prayers of people
- speakerthat day that the action of the General Assembly had not been in
- speakera direction of inclusiveness.
- speakerAnd I didn't know what a General Assembly was.
- speakerI didn't quite know how that was working. But all this is happening in Grace Presbytery.
- speakerAnd at the time, Grace Presbytery only had one More Light congregation.
- speakerOh, and I mean, it was
- speakeron Cedar Springs and I
- speakercan't remember the name of it right now. Tod Freeman was their pastor, so I remember that
- speakermuch. Near Love Field in Dallas. But it was the only sort of openly,
- speakerforwardly More Light congregation.
- speakerThere were several congregations that had begun to adopt the Covenant Network
- speakeridentity, but sort of, you know, as
- speakeris true for much of North Texas, kind of trying to hold the
- speakerattentions of such theological diversity and
- speakerpolitical diversity and trying to find their way through in that time. And so Trinity
- speakerhad not named itself a More Light church, but in every aspect was
- speakerclearly an embracing community.
- speakerJanie Spar came and visited the presbytery.
- speakerOne of the members of our church had a a gathering with Janie and,
- speakeryou know, a rich conversation with her.
- speakerAnd, of course, the General Assembly was held during
- speakerthat time in Fort Worth. And then going to the assembly that year was
- speakermy first experience of the assembly. That was 98 maybe.
- speakerAnd, you know, it was in that time that, you know, there I
- speakerwas first able to hear the hearings that were happening in the assembly committees and
- speakerthe the passionate voices speaking out on the floor.
- speakerI became involved in More Light
- speakerespecially and sort of tangentially in That All May Freely Serve as they
- speakerwere trying to find their place in the Presbytery of Grace.
- speakerAnd, you know, but at this point, I still saw
- speakermyself as a church member who just moved through
- speakerthe church. And, you know, I was I was feeling more and more at
- speakerhome. I had taken membership, actually, I had never been baptized in
- speakerthe Baptist church of my upbringing. So I was baptized there at Trinity.
- speakerAnd, you know, so I was really starting to own that, but still had no
- speakerconcept there would be a vocational journey within
- speakerthe church or me.
- speakerBut in some time in late 98,
- speakerpartly in reflection on the assembly
- speakerand the experience of the spirit in that space, and along
- speakerwith several other things, I began to sense a call to ministry and, you
- speakerknow, brought that to my pastor and to folks there in the congregation.
- speakerAnd, you know, received immediate and just grace
- speakerfilled support from minute one from them.
- speakerSo I came under the care of Grace Presbytery. It was an interesting time, I
- speakerthink in Grace Presbytery that
- speakermany of these truths were unspoken but I know that the chair of
- speakerCPM at that time was a gay man.
- speakerI don't think that that was
- speakerspoken, but it was true.
- speakerI could identify other people on the CPM who
- speakerwere clearly from supportive congregations.
- speakerYeah.
- speakerSo, you know, there was in
- speakerthat space where you might not expect a progressive voice there was a very clear
- speakeropenness. During some of those seasons
- speakerwhen Grace Presbytery would vote on the amendments,
- speakertheir votes would be razor thin, you know, two
- speakerhundred and four in favor and two hundred and six against or something.
- speakerIt's a number that's this in my head.
- speakerSo I started my own ministry journey, came under care of the Presbytery
- speakerand of that the church.
- speakerAnd you know, I chose for myself that my
- speakerown path seemed most right to sort
- speakerof keep
- speakerwithin. A sort of don't ask, don't tell roll.
- speakerPartly because in those days there was no clear path for
- speakersomeone who outed themselves.
- speakerAnd I felt a handful of of competing issues.
- speakerYou know, on the one hand, yeah, there's job
- speakersecurity and all that kind of thing. On the other hand, I also felt a real deep
- speakersense of seeing the number of people in my community of care who were functioning in a
- speakersort of don't ask, don't tell way and knowing they have to be those people, there
- speakerhave to be the people who endure the closet to
- speakerjourney through and make space for the closet doors to open.
- speakerAnd so for me, I felt that that was that was part of my calling in
- speakerthat time was to, you know, to try
- speakerto find my way into the system, to be a presence, to be a model, to
- speakerbe a vote, to be, you know, to be there for some other queer person
- speakerwho needed someone on the other side of
- speakerthe ordination journey to be there for them.
- speakerI will say that I know there were folks in
- speakerthe journey along the way in the movement who
- speakersaw that choice on my part as
- speakeran unfaithful choice. I
- speakerwas taken to task by colleagues for
- speakerchoosing my own safety over
- speakerthe movement. I was sharply
- speakerreprimanded by some colleagues within the movement that what I was choosing was
- speakerunfaithful.
- speakerI obviously strongly disagree, but
- speakerI say that not because their choices
- speakerwere unfaithful. But, you know, we have to honor every
- speakerchoice in the journey and honor the discernment that we each feel that
- speakerthe spirit gives us.
- speakerAnd so, you know, I did not make those choices only for job
- speakersecurity. I really looked around at the people, not only the
- speakerpeople in my Presbyterian life, but the teachers that I had that I knew that work that
- speakerin suburban north Texas could not come out
- speakerof the closet for fear of, you know.
- speakerBut but yet they were there and they were impactful on my life.
- speakerThey showed me that I was going to be okay.
- speakerYou know, that I was going to be able to bring art and
- speakerkindness and compassion into the world in some way and be myself.
- speakerSo hold on. Hang true.
- speakerKeep moving, you know.
- speakerAnd so that's that's how I chose to keep moving to
- speakerbe that kind of person and that kind of prescence.
- speakerAnd that continued into my eventual call.
- speakerI was ordained by Grace Presbytery in
- speaker2004 and into service to three congregations in
- speakerthe Presbytery of the Palisades.
- speakerSo here in New Jersey, again, living in a
- speakerdon't ask, don't tell kind of way. I was living with my partner at the time, but I
- speakerwas pastor of three churches and three churches or three different towns.
- speakerSo it was very easy for me to live in yet a fourth town so that I
- speakerhad my own space, my own grocery store and all of that.
- speakerAnd and, you know.
- speakerThe queer frame of issues was not the primary
- speakerframe that I functioned out of.
- speakerThat being said, I also knew that
- speakerone of my organists I could tell
- speakerneeded me to be who I was the way I was being who I was.
- speakerAnother one of the my congregations there was a
- speakerwoman who would eventually, you know, discover that the church
- speakerwas a safe place for her to create
- speakerthe quilt square for her brother who had died of AIDS.
- speakerAnd, you know, she needed that space.
- speakerAnd I think I helped create that space, you know,
- speakerby being who I was, by being, you know, even with some
- speakersome boundaries there, you know, it
- speakerstarted to become less of a don't ask, don't tell.
- speakerAnd the more I'll use Jesus language, let them who have eyes to see,
- speakersee who have ears to hear, hear.
- speakerAnd, you know, even including one Sunday morning where
- speakerI preached and, you know, one of my churches was a pretty conservative space
- speakerin many respects.
- speakerAnd I preached a sermon on Jesus
- speakerand the woman coming to his feet, washing his
- speakerfeet with her tears and with her hair.
- speakerAnd there's a place there in that text where Jesus turns to
- speakerthe Pharisees at the other end of the table and says, Do you see this woman?
- speakerAnd there isn't an assumption in the text that she's a sinner, read
- speakerprostitute or whatever you want to read that.
- speakerAnd Jesus does not say, do you see the label that is
- speakerupon her? But do you see her, you know.
- speakerAnd I preached what I think was a very forward text
- speakerin a very forward sermon.
- speakerAnd you know there was a man in the congregation in his 80s
- speakerand he completely misheard me.
- speakerOh, my goodness. He completely misheard me. I still to this day don't know how he
- speakermisheard me. During prayers of the people, he stood up.
- speakerAnd it happened that there had been an article in The Bergen Record, the newspaper
- speakerin Bergen County that Sunday morning.
- speakerI had not seen it. And it was on the front page of the religion section.
- speakerAnd it was about how the Presbyterians and the Methodists and I think was the
- speakerEpiscopalians that year were all going to be dealing with the question
- speakerof queer inclusiveness in ordination.
- speakerAnd he held up this article and he said, you know, we need to
- speakerlisten to the pastor this morning because he's telling us that there are Pharisees out
- speakerthere who are getting this wrong.
- speakerAnd they're in our own denomination.
- speakerAnd there are mules who are trying to come in because God didn't create
- speakerthe mule. Human beings created mules.
- speakerAnd that's why mules can't reproduce.
- speakerAnd that's why homosexuals can't reproduce because they're created by human
- speakerbeings, not by and just this whole thing.
- speakerAnd I'm standing there and here's this man calling me a mule, and I'm his pastor.
- speakerYou know, and and I'm standing there in the room knowing my organist,
- speakera closeted gay man, is over here hearing this.
- speakerAnd I'm knowing that there are other people in the room because it's a room with human
- speakerbeings in it whose lives are touched by queer folk, even
- speakerif they can't talk about it. And here's this guy, you know, one of the
- speakerelder statespersons of the church who's standing up and saying, God
- speakerdid not create you. If you're queer, you are a mule in the eyes of
- speakerGod.
- speakerYou know, I have just preached this sermon that's supposed to, you know, have solved all
- speakerof that, you know. And, you know, do we see the humanity in each other,
- speakeryou know?
- speakerAnd so, you know, it was just it was a a bracing moment of recognizing
- speakerhow much work there is to do, how much work of presence,
- speakerof truth telling, of moving beyond closet walls.
- speakerBut while, you know and I couldn't I couldn't come
- speakerout on the floor in that moment.
- speakerI didn't feel that I could anyway, you know, and I I
- speakersought to defuze him by barely acknowledging, but by saying,
- speakeryou know what page is that on in the paper again.
- speakerOK. So that's on page five. Are there other things we want to talk about today?
- speakerYou know, but, you know, that was one of my rawest moments of sort of, you know,
- speakerhomophobia just. Coming.
- speakerComing right at me.
- speakerA pastoral word about him, his
- speakername is George. He also was dealing at that time with the
- speakerextraordinary grief of having lost his wife of 50 something years.
- speakerAnd, you know, I knew that he was speaking, he
- speakerwas turning to an issue that he thought he could rear
- speakerhimself up about as a way of avoiding the deep grief that he wasn't willing to see.
- speakerAnd so, you know, it also made me come back and recognize
- speakerall the ways that homophobia does present
- speakeritself in our churches, in our places as
- speakeran easy way to escape the real stuff that we need to be talking about.
- speakerAnd the real pains and human realities that just
- speakerlinger under the surface. And if only I can talk about something else and
- speakernot have to talk about, you know, so there is a coming out for
- speakerall of us that's there.
- speakerI'd serve in those churches
- speakerfor four years and then join the staff of the Hudson River Presbytery,
- speakerwhere I served as the associate general presbyter
- speakerfor four years after that. And and in that season also began up
- speakermore of a coming out, more of a let them who have eyes to see, see.
- speakerI felt it was very important in that role to continue to be as
- speakerpresent to the conservative members of the presbytery as it was
- speakerto be present to the liberals in the Hudson River Presbytery.
- speakerThere were far more folks on the progressive end of the spectrum than on
- speakerthe conservative end.
- speakerSo it was a different pastoral balance.
- speakerBut, you know, holding that
- speakerspace and being back to, four
- speakeryears after when I would leave Hudson River and eventually come here to Broadway in
- speakerManhattan, the one church that every member of their congregation signed a card
- speakerand set me well wishes was one of the most conservative churches in the
- speakerpresbytery. You know, because it's just as
- speakerJesus wanted them to see that woman, it's also so important to see the
- speakerlives of the people, you know, who are who are theologically
- speakeragainst me. But, you know, in our humanity, I think we
- speakerare driven to care for each other in one way or another if we see each other.
- speakerServing the Hudson River, I did serve as
- speakerone of the overture advocates for what
- speakerwould eventually become the the
- speakerend of G-6.0106b. And so
- speakerhad taken part in in that unique process
- speakerbeing a part of that kind of work at the General Assembly you
- speakerknow, with people coming together from many different Presbyteries to organize
- speakerone common presentation for the Church
- speakerOrder Committee, at that assembly was
- speakera deeply moving, rich,
- speakerrich, rich opportunity to hear the different perspectives around
- speakerthe room and the ways that we all felt called to approach, whether it was as
- speakeran outright call to justice, whether it was a call driven
- speakerby scripture, whether it was a call driven by our humanity, by our individual
- speakerstories, by the stories of loved ones, by the folks we had seen shot out, or
- speakerthe folks that needed to be lifted up.
- speakerYou know, at really hearing that around
- speakerthat table, so beautifully guided by Tricia Dykers Koenig.
- speakerAnd the way that that, you know, she I
- speakerthink more than anybody was able to just hear and know all
- speakerthe many perspectives that were around the denomination and try
- speakerto hold all of those in mind and at heart.
- speakerYou know, I was so grateful for her leadership then.
- speakerAnd I think that the report that we offered at
- speakerthat committee I think was meaningful.
- speakerI think it was articulate. I think it said so much from so
- speakermany, you know, it was half an hour or however long the committee gave us.
- speakerBut, you know, I think it was impactful time.
- speakerSo, you know, there's there are many memories
- speakeralong this way. Many people that I hope that
- speakeryou've already spoken with or will continue to speak to.
- speakerYou know, I've mentioned Janie, who's clearly out there and and,
- speakeryou know, a luminary, you know.
- speakerI think Mieke Vandersall, who's a dear friend of mine and a seminary
- speakerclassmate, you know, we've had different journeys
- speakerto strike along the way. But I think always held a clear and
- speakerintegral sense that that though our calls were different, that we needed each
- speakerother. I would eventually work very closely with Mieke.
- speakerI was chair of the board for Presbyterian Welcome here in the city.
- speakerI think for six years I lost track somewhere along the way.
- speakerAnd so in my last couple of years in Hudson River and my first
- speakercouple of years here at Broadway
- speakerto serve in that space and to to watch as Presbyterian
- speakerWelcome, really sought to have
- speakera local focus in terms of what our
- speakerchurch is here in the city and metro area can be doing, but also
- speakerbegan more and more to start imagining what's the what's our calling into
- speakerthe future? Who are the the folks who are out there
- speakerwho when these, you know, prohibitions fall,
- speakerwho's out there ready to step in to serve us?
- speakerThe folks like Bertram, the folks like, you know,
- speakerlike Ashley Birt, the and
- speakerothers who stood at the door and didn't quite make it
- speakerin the denomination long enough, who chose other paths as well.
- speakerBut, you know, Presbyterian Welcome sought to create a space for the pastoral
- speakercommunity.
- speakerThe formative pastoral community of queer pastors seeking calls
- speakerhad a place to root and to be grounded in each other and to trust in
- speakerone another and to see that, you know, that they were not alone.
- speakerSo Mieke's role as pastor in
- speakerthat space. I think is profoundly important.
- speakerAnd so many others whose names, I'm sure, come up again and again.