Angela Davis debate, 183rd General Assembly, 1971, side B.

Primary tabs

View (active tab)

Transcript

speaker
Madam moderator Jack Matheson of the Chicago Presbytery,
speaker
I wish to speak in opposition to the amendment and to remind
speaker
the General Assembly that for the past week or more,
speaker
we have channeled much of our energies into the concern
speaker
for the injustice not of only blacks and other minorities,
speaker
but the injustices with respect to women as well.
speaker
Therefore, I would like to commend the Council on Church and
speaker
Race for their wise discretion and
speaker
happening to designate a sum of ten thousand dollars
speaker
in defense of a black woman where there was no attempt
speaker
in advance to prejudge her innocence
speaker
or her guilt, but to focus attention on the primary
speaker
purpose of the Legal Defense Fund.
speaker
And that is to see that the judicial process is exercised
speaker
for all residents of this country.
speaker
And therefore, I speak in opposition to the amendment.
speaker
And thank God I serve a church attempting to bring about
speaker
justice for all mankind.
speaker
Thank you. I need someone who is going to speak in favor.
speaker
Nine Madam Moderator Brant Harper, Nevada
speaker
Presbyterian, the youth delegate.
speaker
I speak in favor of the amendment because that
speaker
Angela Davis will get a fair trial and she has plenty of money to do it with.
speaker
But I really feel sorry for the many young men, often minority
speaker
men who are in jail and unable to defend themselves and they are
speaker
only able to get out on bail just because they are poor and they don't get a fair
speaker
chance. Angela Davis will get a fair chance.
speaker
Thank you.
speaker
All right. Now I need someone in opposition to the motion at 5:00.
speaker
SNYDER General, severely the case of Professor Davis is one
speaker
of racial and social justice, having always been taught
speaker
that our judicial system will not flawless is a fair system.
speaker
I am confused by any reluctance of the church to support
speaker
the judicial process.
speaker
This case is not a question of innocence or guilt, but as a church
speaker
firmly endorsing the right of all to a fair trial.
speaker
There is no such thing as too much justice.
speaker
And I speak against the amendment.
speaker
Eleven Madam moderator John Sharpe of Newark.
speaker
I move the previous question.
speaker
Is there a second to that motion?
speaker
All in favor. Say I oppose.
speaker
No motion is carried.
speaker
The previous question is this. I move that the motion be amended so that the amount
speaker
requested by the general counsel allocating one hundred thousand annually to the French
speaker
Fund for Legal Aid be denied and that no funds be allocated to any
speaker
agency for such purposes. And that subsection three of section aph
speaker
be deleted from the report of the Committee on Church and Race.
speaker
Thirty seven, dash six. Mr. Young and Mr. Peters may speak even
speaker
though debate has been closed. They still have this past derby.
speaker
Do you wish to speak first or do Atmos GM speak first?
speaker
Six out a moderator.
speaker
I would just simply like to close by saying that the committee
speaker
charged with the trust that is the power of allocating
speaker
this fund has not demonstrated to this assembly
speaker
that they have made a determination that this lady is in need
speaker
or that she is an indigent or that there was any reason for spending
speaker
one tenth of the amount allocated for her.
speaker
And lastly, this committee has not demonstrated
speaker
that the that a responsible defense will be presented in behalf of
speaker
this woman and that they made no inquiry whatsoever before
speaker
they made the ten thousand dollar grant that this would not turn
speaker
into a political trial.
speaker
The object of which is to attack the integrity of the judicial system
speaker
in this country.
speaker
Thank you.
speaker
Now, Mr. Yang, I wonder if in responding
speaker
I may yield to Mr. George Bush.
speaker
No.
speaker
Yes, sir.
speaker
He speaks also as an attorney.
speaker
And since lawyers are arguing, I think perhaps he would be most appropriate.
speaker
All right. Number eight, madam, moderator, fellow commissioners.
speaker
My name is George Bush. No, I'm from Detroit.
speaker
Presbyterian.
speaker
It is perhaps a.
speaker
Yes, that in the Presbyterian Church, which is fundamentally
speaker
a judicial system. Two lawyers should be arguing on the issue.
speaker
I am forced to respectfully disagree with
speaker
my brother Peter.
speaker
I suggest that we as lawyers all know
speaker
that in the untoward event, there is misbehavior in the courtroom,
speaker
that the Supreme Court of the United States, indeed the most
speaker
state jurisdictions, and I am fairly certain that California is
speaker
in the vanguard to permit immediate judicial
speaker
sanction of behavior.
speaker
It say, excuse me, Mr. Bushnell, there is a point of order up here we'll have to
speaker
take up.
speaker
I believe that the maker of the motion is allowed
speaker
to be the last to speak. Well, Mr. Bush now nor did the committee make the motion
speaker
that's being considered.
speaker
The point of order is not well taken.
speaker
It's one of the chair offered to Mr. Peters a choice as to whether he wanted the
speaker
committee to speak first and to close debate himself or whether he wished
speaker
to speak. He chose to speak, which he has done.
speaker
Now the committee is making the concluding argument.
speaker
Yes, Mr. Peters agrees.
speaker
Now, Mr. Bush.
speaker
Now that, however, is is really not the point, I suggest,
speaker
of Mr. Peters motion.
speaker
There are certain assumptions made that I simply can not
speaker
go along with. Since they are assumptions and there is no way of knowing
speaker
what a possible outcome of this particular litigation will be,
speaker
the motion.
speaker
And this, I think, is the significant thing.
speaker
The motion seeks to eliminate the entire farm
speaker
in eliminating the entire fund because of concern
speaker
about the object of one of the grants.
speaker
The Presbyterian Church will have to deny the right
speaker
to this type of emergency legal aid
speaker
to everyone who makes application for that aid through which due to
speaker
Catering's, if you would examine the report, you'll find
speaker
that the vast majority of the grants made from that
speaker
fund have been in the amounts of one thousand dollars or
speaker
less, which is the amount that is necessary
speaker
to provide a bail bond so that a man can participate
speaker
fully in his own defense and fully prepare
speaker
his case.
speaker
I suggest the motion throws the baby out with the bathwater.
speaker
But more importantly, again, this motion is selective.
speaker
And I respectfully suggest to my fellow commissioners
speaker
that when fair trial is considered by selective
speaker
application, then there is a
speaker
denial of the humanity of the individual defendant
speaker
and a denial of a fundamental principles of constitutional law
speaker
with which none of us disagree.
speaker
I'm sure the right to a fair trial.
speaker
I urge defeat of this motion.
speaker
All right.
speaker
We are ready to vote. All in favor of this motion.
speaker
Say I oppose.
speaker
No, no.
speaker
The motion is defeated. We are now back to the amendment which states to move that
speaker
180 third General Assembly communicate to Kelkar serious questions concerning
speaker
the propriety of allocating ten thousand dollars to the Marin County Black Defense
speaker
Fund.
speaker
This was made by Mr. Wamsley at 12:00.
speaker
Madam Moderator Dick Inactine, Presbyterian Santo's A..
speaker
I'd like to offer an amendment. All right.
speaker
I move that the Council on Church and Race be instructed with regard
speaker
to the Emergency Fund for Legal Aid to one expend no
speaker
more than 1000 dollars.
speaker
On behalf of any one person or organization, except
speaker
in no more than one case per year, a maximum of five thousand dollars
speaker
may be spent in one case. In special circumstances, any such expenditure
speaker
in excess of 1000 dollars must be approved by a vote of 75
speaker
percent of the council to disburse no
speaker
further funds. In defense of Angela Davis three
speaker
report annually, names of those individuals who receive
speaker
aid and amounts contributed to each.
speaker
Right, is there secondly this amendment?
speaker
There is a man, a moderator, I understand that approximately thousand dollars will do a
speaker
lot to defend one person.
speaker
And if we expend no more than 1000 dollars per case and perhaps
speaker
5000 dollars in one case per year, we will defend a
speaker
possible ninety five people.
speaker
And the present expenditure that has occurred, we've put twenty five thousand dollars to
speaker
one of the Black Panther 21 and ten thousand dollars to Angela
speaker
Davis, a total of thirty five thousand dollars out of the fund.
speaker
This puts our funds into too few people if we
speaker
spend their funds this way. On the other hand, sometimes it might be necessary
speaker
to make a significant contribution to one person such as Angela Davis.
speaker
And five thousand dollars will make a significant contribution, just as 10000
speaker
dollars would. The second part of my motion, referring Pantsula Davis, is in
speaker
the spirit of the first part in as much as we have already expended 10000
speaker
in this one case. I would like to see no further funds expended
speaker
there.
speaker
And the third part of the motion,
speaker
remember what it was.
speaker
I report annual reports.
speaker
Well, I would like to see the individuals named so that we don't
speaker
run into a situation such as we have seen this year where
speaker
organizations are named as the defendants who are being protected.
speaker
This is not a violation of privacy.
speaker
Of the names of these individuals are a matter of public record.
speaker
The court records are public. And if we're going to make you a witness
speaker
in saying that we are defending, for example, Angela Davis and we believe
speaker
that even a communist is entitled to a defense, then we should be
speaker
proud of our witness and not try to hide it behind a front organization.
speaker
Madam Moderator, I would be perfectly willing to have this motion voted
speaker
in three separate parts.
speaker
There's been no request for such to be done.
speaker
I will request such. Is there someone else who wishes?
speaker
No.
speaker
All right then. We're talking only about the first part and that has to do with how much
speaker
we're going to spend. One thousand per case.
speaker
All right. Most 5000.
speaker
In which to speak against this particular part at nine.
speaker
Those of us who are black are tired of price tags being attached to
speaker
our humanity.
speaker
For too long, we've talked about black people in terms of dollars.
speaker
Are we interested in justice in the United Presbyterian Church or
speaker
are we willing here to dispense with justice in the name of getting a
speaker
few token greenbacks so that black people will hush their mouths
speaker
if we remember just a very few minutes ago.
speaker
Mr. Cox outlined the cost of the Angela Davis case FORIS,
speaker
which is far in excess of any Tolkan one thousand dollars.
speaker
Tom Chy, Western Colorado press secretary.
speaker
I don't think any of us have any quarrel at all
speaker
with the basic constitutional rights which have been mentioned.
speaker
I think what is at issue here is sensationalism
speaker
and spreading our funds that we have available with us
speaker
among the most possible defendants to do the most good.
speaker
Now, if we limit the amount of funds expended on
speaker
any one individual, we can make these funds go a long way.
speaker
But if we expend them on one case or to the extent
speaker
that we've expended them on one case and the Angela Davis matter,
speaker
all we're doing is causing the spotlight to shine
speaker
on the Presbyterian church.
speaker
Now, I, in the course of my practice in Montrose,
speaker
depend quite a few Chicanos.
speaker
And I know believe me, I know that a thousand dollars
speaker
will go a long way in Montrose, Colorado, to give a full
speaker
defense to a minority group or any
speaker
person for that matter.
speaker
Most of our cases there cost far less than a thousand dollars, if you can imagine
speaker
that the few cases such as the Angela Davis
speaker
case had run in hundreds of thousand dollars are very few and far between their political
speaker
cases of more significance than just the
speaker
mere commission of the crime.
speaker
I would urge that we only spend or authorize
speaker
to be spent on each particular case.
speaker
A thousand dollars. I wouldn't even go so far as the five thousand dollars.
speaker
Thank you.
speaker
All right. I need someone who is opposed to the notion
speaker
that this the first section about money at 8:00.
speaker
I speak in opposition to the motion.
speaker
David Van Dike, Glacier Press Secretary.
speaker
I speak now. I speak now as a campus pastor involved
speaker
with minority groups, including black university students and black faculty.
speaker
I urge the assembly to affirm CalCars action and
speaker
offering legal defense in the Marin County case.
speaker
I urge understanding of the fact that those for whom I speak
speaker
view Dr. Angela Davis as a mighty symbol and that in helping
speaker
her we may help vast numbers of others to secure justice.
speaker
OK.
speaker
Well, Madam Moderator, I move the previous question.
speaker
Either there a second all in favor, say I have
speaker
no motion is carried.
speaker
The previous question is only the section extend no more than 1000 hours
speaker
on behalf of any one person or organization, except that in one case per year, a maximum
speaker
of five thousand may be spent in one case in special circumstances.
speaker
Any such expenditure must be approved by a vote of 75 percent of the council on favor
speaker
they say I oppose.
speaker
No.
speaker
Excuse me. You needed to speak to it yourself before we vote.
speaker
Thank you.
speaker
I would only point out that the motion does not mention Angela Davis criticize
speaker
the expenditure of funds in her behalf in any part.
speaker
Thank you. No, I said suppressed sets the pattern for the ensuing years.
speaker
All right. Now, all in favor of this motion.
speaker
Say I oppose.
speaker
No, I really is defeated.
speaker
Yes.
speaker
The division. All right. All in favor.
speaker
Stand up.
speaker
Maybe no does sound louder.
speaker
I think we'll count right now.
speaker
Stand up. You're getting good exercise.
speaker
The vote is two hundred and ninety nine in favor.
speaker
Three hundred and sixty four oppose the motion lost.
speaker
On the second section, which states no further funds in defense
speaker
of Angela Davis.
speaker
At 10:00, I'm Bill Wynn from Cincinnati.
speaker
Press secretary and I would speak in opposition to this second part.
speaker
This legal defense fund was set up by a previous assembly
speaker
for reasons for reasons which were very
speaker
excellent and which most of us would heartily commend.
speaker
Now that they have allocated some of our
speaker
hard earned money to an individual
speaker
who is very controversial, we are reminded
speaker
once again that living our Christian
speaker
faith is not always an easy
speaker
thing to do.
speaker
I would submit that we are missing the
speaker
very vital part of the whole issue.
speaker
We are all for justice
speaker
and we all profess to be Christians.
speaker
I know that when we go home, we will have a
speaker
very hard time explaining
speaker
this allocation of money to Angela Davis
speaker
and another some to the Black Panthers.
speaker
I personally do not like Angela Davis,
speaker
the Black Panthers or the Communists, but I feel
speaker
that is entirely irrelevant
speaker
who this money was given to.
speaker
It's the principle of the legal
speaker
aid fund that is the thing of
speaker
most importance.
speaker
I was sent here to vote my conscience and
speaker
in all good conscience.
speaker
I can not say that we should withhold
speaker
money to a person who needs it
speaker
for defense and who has a plight for it
speaker
through regular channels.
speaker
Just because we do not agree
speaker
with the things that they stand for.
speaker
When this legal defense fund was
speaker
set up, there were no guidelines with it that
speaker
said that it could only be given to white Anglo-Saxon
speaker
Protestants.
speaker
Eleven, madam moderator.
speaker
I move the previous question.
speaker
Is there a second? Is this a personal private ethics or some
speaker
point of order?
speaker
It was a request for information.
speaker
What is it? I do not know how these funds are handled
speaker
and I know that I will be asked.
speaker
I would like to know how they are handled by cruise directives
speaker
and authority.
speaker
The funds in support of Angela Davis defense
speaker
was given and whether or not there is any way
speaker
by the then they can have that authority removed in future.
speaker
Madam moderator on page thirty seven, Dash 21.
speaker
The authorizing action of the one hundred and eighty second General Assembly is noted
speaker
in the middle of the page.
speaker
The action of the last assembly stated that 180 second General Assembly requests.
speaker
The General Council to provide one hundred thousand dollars, etc.
speaker
provides the mandating action.
speaker
There follows then the implementation of the
speaker
setting up of criteria by the Council on Church and Race as directed by the last
speaker
General Assembly.
speaker
The council, it is makes the decision.
speaker
The council and church and race therefore administers those funds
speaker
and establishes certain procedures whereby investigations of particular requests and
speaker
final allocations are made.
speaker
That said. Your question?
speaker
I don't see the one who asked it.
speaker
Now, we were in the midst of voting on moving to the previous question, all in favor,
speaker
say I oppose.
speaker
No. The motion is carried. And the previous question is this, that no further
speaker
funds in defense of Angela Davis be dispersed.
speaker
I excuse me, I forgot to call on the mover twelve
speaker
matter moderator.
speaker
I would only point out that there is no implication that the
speaker
expenditure of funds today in Angela Davis defense has been in any way
speaker
wrong or uncalled for.
speaker
I only ask that no further funds be spent.
speaker
If we're going to see four hundred thousand dollars spent in total
speaker
on this trial, we could easily see the entire fund
speaker
for next year, plus the balance from last year put into this one case.
speaker
I do not like that concept, although I do like the concept
speaker
of having a hundred thousand dollar legal defense fund.
speaker
OK. All in favor of this motion.
speaker
Say I oppose.
speaker
No. The motion is defeated.
speaker
Division. All right. All in favor. Stand.
speaker
I'll oppose. Damn it.
speaker
Do you want to count? It's still defeated to me.
speaker
If you call for count, I will take it. It is call for all of all in favor.
speaker
Stand a
speaker
power stand.
speaker
So I have the vote.
speaker
It is three hundred and for hundred and thirty against it has been defeated.
speaker
We are now back to the Reapers. Then what worked on right now?
speaker
The amendment is due to report annually the names of those individuals who received
speaker
aid and amounts contributed to each.
speaker
You going to speak to that, Madam Mittermeier or acceptable to the committee?
speaker
Oh, this is acceptable to the committee.
speaker
There will be no debate on it.
speaker
Now we are back to Mr. Wamsley's motion at 10:00.
speaker
I would still speak to this again, stacked against
speaker
him. I'm John Page. Topeka, Highland Presbyterian.
speaker
We are, in fact, going back on
speaker
a long heritage in the Presbyterian Church
speaker
where I grew up and was in the schools, it was pointed out to me
speaker
that the Presbyterian Church had influenced
speaker
the Constitution of the United States of America.
speaker
We are, in fact, passing an ex post facto
speaker
law.
speaker
There was no crime against giving money when we allocated
speaker
it. Now we are coming back and saying, you did wrong.
speaker
We are convicting people for doing a job
speaker
that we trusted them to do.
speaker
I think we have indicated to them that there
speaker
is a great number of the people in this church
speaker
that are displeased with the way they allocated the funds.
speaker
I think that they have the wisdom to gain
speaker
from this experience.
speaker
I think that this General Assembly has
speaker
the Christianity to forgive and forget.
speaker
Thank you. Is there someone who would like to speak in favor of the motion at
speaker
11:00?
speaker
Just moderate a move, the previous question.
speaker
Is there a second? All in favor of the previous question say I
speaker
have. Now the debate is ended.
speaker
Mr. Wamsley, it would have saved time, I think, had
speaker
the Coaker committee communicated to us this kind of investigation in
speaker
the fulness that they did tonight.
speaker
Apparently, that information was not available until recently.
speaker
My only comment at this point would be that apparently that kind of homework
speaker
was not done in time for that allocation.
speaker
I think we're all concerned with justice.
speaker
And I would hope that my brothers here would
speaker
feel that I am concerned for justice as they are.
speaker
I heard one comment that if there is to be real justice, perhaps they should allocate
speaker
money to the prosecution as well as to the defendant.
speaker
I think it's also quite unlikely that the communists
speaker
and I would have you note that I never mentioned this in the motion that I made.
speaker
I'm simply asking about the propriety.
speaker
But as an aside, I would say that I think it's quite unlikely that the Communists would
speaker
open their books and open their financial resources for the scrutiny of the American
speaker
people. But in as much as this was brought up, I would like to
speaker
make that point.
speaker
I think it should also be said that with the scrutiny and the focus of the world
speaker
upon this county in California, that surely
speaker
we have men of integrity who will make some effort
speaker
to have a fair and just trial.
speaker
I simply have that much faith in the American
speaker
judicial system.
speaker
I think with that matter moderator I would simply
speaker
say that I have questions about those who would make such an issue
speaker
to defend those who would, in effect, destroy us.
speaker
I have serious reservations about some of the things that have been said.
speaker
I, I never for one moment accused anyone of
speaker
trying to perpetrate a crime.
speaker
I simply ask about the propriety.
speaker
I thank you for your attention.
speaker
Thank you. The motion is that the hundred eighty third General Assembly communicate
speaker
to car. It's serious questions concerning the propriety of allocating ten
speaker
thousand dollars to the Marin County Black Defense Fund.
speaker
All in favor.
speaker
Say I oppose.
speaker
No.
speaker
Let me see you stand on favor up.
speaker
I think I'll have you start counting.
speaker
Oppose stand the motion is
speaker
for three hundred and forty seven oppose.
speaker
Three oh three. The motion passed.
speaker
Following the communication to the Council on Church and Race of it, serious question
speaker
concerning the propriety of the Angela Davis grant, the General Assembly voted to
speaker
continue the annual allocation of one hundred thousand dollars to the emergency legal aid
speaker
fund itself.

In collections

Details

Title: Angela Davis debate, 183rd General Assembly, 1971, side B.
Description: Debate about Angela Davis at the 183rd General Assembly of the United Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Recorded in Rochester, N.Y., May 1971. Side B.
Creator: United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. General Assembly (183rd : 1971 : Rochester, N.Y.)
Date: 1971
May 1971
Type of resource: sound recording
Genre: programs
Form: audiocassettes
Extent: 1 audiocassette
Subject names: Davis, Angela Y. (Angela Yvonne), 1944-
United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. General Assembly (183rd : 1971 : Rochester, N.Y.)
Topics: Imprisonment--United States--20th century.
African American intellectuals--20th century.
Political activists--United States--20th century.
Geographic subjects: United States
20th century.
Rochester (N.Y.)
North and Central America--United States--New York--Monroe--Rochester
Rights status: IN COPYRIGHT - NON-COMMERCIAL USE PERMITTED; http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/
Physical location: CASSETTE85; Presbyterian Historical Society, Philadelphia, PA
Related item: Angela Davis debate, 183rd General Assembly [sound recording].--https://catalog.history.pcusa.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumb...
Identifier (local): CASSETTE85b
PID (Persistent Identifier): islandora:166012

Pearl Digital Collections

You are here

Angela Davis debate, 183rd General Assembly, 1971, side B.

Primary tabs

In collections

Bookmark

BookBags: