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Eugene Carson Blake press conference, May 21, 1966.
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- speakerYes. Mrs. White from TIME magazine, Doctor Blake. Most of these people you know what I to do. You know
- speakerI did talk to Mrs. White when I was getting a cup of coffee this morning. Thank you, Dr. Blake. Would you please relate the Confession of 1967 to the Church union? Does this document make the stance of the Presbyterian Church in relation to Union to other denominations easier or more difficult? Let
- speakerme make a straight comment and then if I haven't answered your question afterwards
- speakerI would say the stance that the new altered confessional position [Confession of 67] is
- speakerin line with ecumenical theology as
- speakerto what churches, ought, the way in which churches ought to confess the faith.
- speakerIn that sense, but limited to that sense, it puts us in a
- speakerbetter way to have
- speakera united church. But it does not mean that we are doing something
- speakerin order to be like another church, that we are doing something because the
- speakerecumenical theology is pressing all the churches to confess the faith this way.That
- speakeris to say the principle. The thing that's happened in the last five years is quite
- speakerclear. Everybody, including the Roman Catholics, now accepts the Reformation
- speakerprinciple of continual Reformation. This is. It
- speakerwas Hans Küng who first realized that reformation could be used
- speakerpositively by Roman Catholics. And this is a symbol, you see, of a thing. But
- speakerit's the ecumenical theology pressing all the churches. And so that we're doing it.
- speakerAnd it's it's the kind of thing that Hans Kung said. "The best, the best,
- speakercontribution to unity the Roman Catholic Church can make," he wrote, "was
- speakerto be the best Roman Catholic Church it could be." And I would
- speakersay the same thing for the United Presbyterian Church. The best contribution we make is
- speakerto be reformed under the word. I'm putting it in the, in the particular thing. And, that's what this is intended
- speakerto do.
- speakerWith the dream. Or else fragile
- speakercapacity.
- speakerYeah.
- speakerOn the. Oh.
- speakerYes I'll comment on it.
- speakerYes I'm sure I'm going to miss it George but.
- speakerI was reminding the girls looked a little harried back in the office
- speakerthat when we have a World Council meeting we've got. Two other things that we have to
- speakerdo to get the papers out before the people. They have to be translated into the other two
- speakerofficial languages.
- speakerAnd the Re-Read and then mimeographed and got out so that they really are getting off very
- speakereasy.
- speakerIt's all in something that is near English if my Canadian friend will. Bob Schwartz from Pittsburgh Press. There seems to be a paradox in leadership, that a strong leader is railroading and a weak one doesn't get anything accomplished. Could you sign a document of reconciliation?
- speakerYes I think that. One should recognize
- speakerthat Presbyterians. Partly because of the history
- speakerare very
- speakerworried about personal decision
- speakerpower or personal authority. We give very little to anybody
- speakeranywhere under the rules. A lot of people
- speakerdon't make the distinction between that and influence. And, it's perfectly clear
- speakerthat 15 years in my position gives me more influence than many.
- speakerAnd, you just cannot work any way, if a man is at all
- speakereffective, not to have that influence grow. Now the two overtures
- speakerthat were turned down this morning which were not commented on
- speakerin general but they were no action taken on them. Left as I
- speakerjudge very wisely that within the rules we can
- speakerreplace the Stated Clerk every five years easily. There are good ways to do
- speakerit. Easily only if, however, there
- speakeris a general feeling they ought to be replaced.
- speakerAnd this this I think is the way a body should do. But I
- speakeram committed to and as I shall be saying next Wednesday in a briefing
- speakerI I believe in the system. And, I think that
- speakerecclesiastical decisions, and I'm agreeing with the Roman Catholic Church's new stance in
- speakerthis now, ought to be in ordered groups rather than in
- speakerpersonal decision. But under the policy, anybody who is an
- speakerexecutive of anything has to decide whether he's going to carry it out or
- speakeris going to forget it. And. I am one of those who entered into this
- speakerthing from the pastorate because I thought certain things ought to be done that couldn't be
- speakerdone from the pastorate.
- speakerAnd I think some of them have happened. Aubrey Brown. Yes, Aubrey. What are you. What do you consider to be some of the significant differences in this church today from, say, fifteen to twenty years ago? I
- speakerthink that it is quite clear that most of the
- speakerpeople recognize that the greatest weakness
- speakerof our church 15 years ago was it's being a class Church
- speakergenerally.
- speakerNow I don't want to criticize the past. We have a very fine record
- speakeras against the new peoples who moved in the beginning from the beginning of the 20th century
- speakeron. I don't know how many languages the gospel is still preached in, in our churches every
- speakerSunday. So it wasn't that. But basically we were there.
- speakerI let me reminisce when I was a pastor. I had a labor
- speakerleader come to me seriously and say, "Is
- speakerthere a place in the membership of the Presbyterian church for me?"
- speakerHe looked at our session. He looked at our trustees. He looked
- speakerat our general membership and he wasn't sure that he belonged
- speakerbecause it was so overwhelmingly on the side of management and
- speakerthose who are the clerical people.
- speakerAnd it is still true that our church basically
- speakerhas been made up of people whose personal interests
- speakerwould be that way.
- speakerNow I think we have moved both,
- speakerin the public way and in particular ways, to try to make it clear
- speakerthat we are trying to be a Christian church rather than a fraternity of a
- speakercertain kind and class of people. I'd say that's the number one thing
- speakerthat I think some progress has been made.
- speakerMaybe that's a general unless you want to press for something else. I think we have moved ecumenically but
- speakerthis has been a development. Inevitably we would have in these
- speaker15 years. I am happy at the
- speakerrelationship of the United Presbyterian Church toward the tremendous
- speakerprograms of the National Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches. I think we
- speakerare more committed to, and understanding of,
- speakerthose ecumenical organizations and from. Now, if I may shift to the
- speakerprospective position which I'll be speaking it is quite clear that
- speakerthe United Presbyterian Church is one of the very important churches to
- speakermake whatever the World Council wants to do
- speakerpossible, both by money, by interest, by general support of
- speakerpersons. This is very clear. And, I think it's
- speakerpartly because we have in this 15 years developed
- speakera theory that these things are not extras, that they are the extension
- speakerof this church's own life, and it is not in the
- speakerdenominational pattern. You just cannot take these as as
- speakerelectives. If they are not perfect, and they are not, then get in there and pitch
- speakerand make them better. That's the only answer. There is no other way. Well, I just wanted to ask you are willing to tell what you. When do you expect final action on the Confession? Well,
- speakerit will be either Monday or Tuesday. I think. I mean
- speakerthat would be my guess. I would guess that we probably won't get through Monday we might. I
- speakerthink it could have been voted the first night.
- speakerThat was not the way it was docketed because we didn't know that that would be at the time.
- speakerBut Monday morning now at 9:00 we hope to have a half hour to clean up the
- speakeramendment system.
- speakerNow they may want to make some more amendments, and they're free to do it if they want to. I don't know what the. But I
- speakerdon't think that the Assembly itself will let people
- speakermake very many more amendments especially if they're just like the ones that have been already voted down
- speakerso that the assembly will take care of that amending process. Then we will
- speakerhave to ask whether people want to have a five minute
- speakerlimit say on speeches pro and con without the amendments and those
- speakeramendments won't be in order. Not withstanding. I mean we this body can make a
- speakerrule that they finished with amending. And now, we're going to discuss the whole question
- speakerpro and con.
- speakerI hope that we get enough of that in the time either late
- speakerMonday afternoon or the time that it's docketed for Tuesday afternoon
- speakerto get the vote. At the latest,
- speakerTuesday afternoon possibility of Monday afternoon, if there isn't anything that people want. They don't want to
- speakertalk that long.
- speakerIt may be. Worchester Telegram. Well
- speakerI tell you. Nobody is indispensable.
- speakerThere are a lot of things that aren't finished yet. As the man said
- speakerwhen he was asked how much it cost to make his red nose. But
- speakerthe the point that I would feel
- speakerthere are some very good denominational leaders. Some of them
- speakerwill take certain jobs that I have had. These are already and
- speakerthey will they will get along all right. One way or another I'm sure. The
- speakernew president of the Consultation on Church Union, Dave Colwell [Colwell, David G.], is an
- speakerimportant leader the United Church of Christ. Bishop Hines [Hines, John E.] is taken one of my World Council
- speakerjobs. He has only begun to exercise
- speakerhis national leadership ecumenically, one of the strongest men we have
- speakerin that whole area, quite clearly. I am. I don't
- speakerwant to go on and mention too many, then I will leave somebody out but
- speakerI don't think that it always. You know, I'm surprised a young woman like you asking the question when we get
- speakerolder we always think that the leadership isn't what it used to be. But, it
- speakeralways seems to come along. And one of the chances. You don't get a chance to lead unless you're there. What will be your relation to the Consultation the World Council? If
- speakerit fits in with my with my program
- speakerof next year. And I don't. I'm not really committing myself to much of anything until I see get over there and see what
- speakerI have to do. I will try to be, at their request, the World Council
- speakerrepresentatives for the next meeting of the Consultation.
- speakerI can't actually commit myself now because I just don't know what other decisions may have been made
- speakerbefore I get to be General Secretary. But I asked them not to
- speakerpress it beyond that, because I have an idea
- speakerthat in the six months that I will know better than I would now as to whether any continuing
- speakerrelationship would be embarrassing either to the World Council or the Consultation. And
- speakerI think that by that time also they will be
- speakergetting along without my personal. The executive committee will have had a years experience without me
- speakerthere.
- speakerIt may be a great improvement. Have. Have you talked further with? Made any further definite plans about what kind of continuing arrangement you think that Dr. Visser t'Hooft [Visser t'Hooft, Willem A.] might occupy? I
- speakerhave announced publicly that I would make some things. I think probably this
- speakerisn't the proper place for me to make concrete. But, I can say to you that I think he and
- speakerI agree as to what I will do it. And, I expect the executive committee to agree
- speakerto it. Which will, in general when I can. I'm happy here. I want to find a way to make
- speakerthe fullest use of his experience and powers within his own limitations
- speakerof what he wants to do for the World Council, which will be a good deal, I hope. And
- speakerwhat his interests are. It will not be specified, specific. It will be a general
- speakerrelationship of some kind that is satisfactory to him. I hope
- speakerwe can give him some help in carrying out,
- speakercarrying over correspondence and things like that, that he will have to do. He's.
- speakerI'm sure welcome to an office in the headquarters if he wants one. When will the executive committee meet first
- speakerAfter I take office it will be in February. And,
- speakerI forget where we're meeting
- speakernext February. It's still hard to keep those in mind. We're going to some interesting places with different meetings. We're going to be
- speakerin.
- speakerThere will be a meeting. That's before I take office though I was saying at a meeting in
- speakerGeneva this summer and in August early August with the executive committee. And, this will be a
- speakerrather odd one. I won't. I'm no longer a member of the executive committee since February.
- speakerAnd. But Dr. Visser t'Hooft and I agree that we would make proposals together to this
- speakermeeting because we were. So we've been working on certain proposals in the meantime.
- speakerJimmy Johnson, Milwaukee Sentinel.
- speakerIt is possible the World Council may have another meeting in the United States? It is possible that there'll be another meeting. We were in Rochester not too long ago. What year was that?
- speakerSixty-three. Sixty-three. So that within these years there may be a
- speakercentral committee or an executive committee. These are the ones that move
- speakeraround the different areas. I don't think we've planned very much beyond
- speakerthe Uppsala assembly, which is the summer of 68. We plan to be in the summer
- speakerof 67 on the island of Crete for the Central Committee. That's the next central committee,
- speakerand then the assembly is in Sweden in 68. And, the
- speakerexecutive committee. I think there's one I believe, we're to be in England, and perhaps that's next
- speakernext winter. I think we're going to meet at Windsor or someplace near
- speakerthe Windsor Castle if I remember rightly. In all your worldwide activities, will you be able to keep your roots in this church? And, if so, how? Well
- speakerI'm a member, and I expect to continue so, as long as I behave myself, in good standing of Los Angeles
- speakerpresbytery.
- speakerI'll have to be careful.
- speakerWell I have to report to keep in good standing, and we'll do that. I have their
- speakerpermission to accept the job, which Dr. Visser t'Hooft asked
- speakerand received. And.
- speakerSo and I asked that he that I be given that permission.
- speakerI have doubtless will have some contacts with certain things, but I'll have to be a little
- speakerovercareful to. My guess is that
- speakerthat I will be able to make certain appearances in
- speakerthis country from time to time. But they'll probably be mostly denominational meetings
- speakerand probably be other than the United Presbyterian Church more often than United
- speakerPresbyterian. Did they give you permission to labor outside the bounds of Los Angeles Presbytery? Oh,
- speakertheir bounds go so far west that it practically gets to Geneva.
- speakerDr. Blake. You are saying you are still in the L.A. Presbytery. You have been considered a Philadelphian for fifteen years. I wonder why you haven't? Did you ever consider transferring? Oh, yes. The oldest presbytery in the country?
- speakerChamber of Commerce Yes.
- speakerBut the problem is really in pity for New York and Philadelphia presbyteries.Mainly that we
- speakerdon't have a rule requiring each of us to come to the presbytery of our residence.
- speakerThe national bureaucracy, which is somewhat larger than was contemplated
- speakerin the Form of Government written in the 18th century, does mean that
- speakerif too many. There is no prohibit prohibition against it. But if too many
- speakermoved in the place of their residence, when they have national responsibility, it would
- speakeroverwhelm and distort the judicatories.
- speakerSo what is done, according to the rules, is to consider it, and your employing
- speakeragency decides.
- speakerSince I was the first Stated Clerk who had not been a member of a presbytery in the Synod of Pennsylvania since
- speaker1789, it seemed to me that it might be just as well symbolically to stay in Los
- speakerAngeles.
- speakerVery good reason. George. Back on the Creed, Dr. Blake. What is your feeling about the fact that much of the, many of those who have been quite critical of the Creed have now indicated their support? Well, I
- speakerthink that it's because our amendment process is a good one.
- speakerAnd that's was what irritated me frankly during the early fall when all of these
- speakerpresbyteries were overturing for a delay before they. They were crying out before they
- speakerwere hurt. And the. So, that all that I did during this
- speakeryear was to be sure that we didn't get a landslide for delay before we found out
- speakerwhat was happening. And, I did try to take actions to make it clear that this
- speakerwas not, in my judgment, good order to do it. Because the Constitution
- speakerdoes provide for this year for amendments. The thing that some didn't seem to
- speakersee in the in the process is that there were
- speakerthree things that this Committee of 15 could do. One would be to do nothing do it because they liked it
- speakerso well. The other would be to amend it because they liked it well enough to feel that it should go with some
- speakeramendments. That's what happened. The third would have been. We've tried
- speakerour hand at this, and it is so impossible we don't think it's ready. And, that was what I
- speakertold the Committee of 15 they must do if they couldn't do their work in the year. Because it says to the next
- speakerensuing. And the reason for that, and I think that this is the point that a great
- speakermany people missed. If it had to be redone thoroughly, this Committee of 15 was not the one to do it at
- speakerall. We would have to start again and pick other theologians who were
- speakermore competent than the first theologians, who are the people that must
- speakerwrite the theological. You just can't get a committee, and say, "Well. It must be all grassroots
- speakerpeople because the grassroots is the church." If that's the case, then you've got a
- speakercomplete anti-intellectualism, which of course I have tried to
- speakerresist.
- speakerI don't think we can be a second-class Pentecostal church. Dean Peerman of Christian Century.
- speakerEarlier, you touched on the multi-lingual aspects of the World Council's work. And, I heard some doubts expressed about your facility in this respect. Will this be a problem? How seriously will this be a problem? expressed. For operation English is the language that is necessary for the World Council of Churches.
- speakerYou have to have English. The. Most
- speakerpeople speak English in the committees of the World Council of Churches. Most
- speakerof the business is done. Once in a while there will be a French-speaking committee because it's Geneva
- speakerand you are doing a housekeeping kind of job or something like that.
- speakerSo French is very useful for the locale of the headquarters. It
- speakeris also one of the official languages and becomes particularly useful now
- speakerbecause of the number of churches in the former French and Belgian
- speakercolonies of Africa.
- speakerI remind you that the representatives of those churches that French is about the third language that
- speakerthose men have as a rule and to expect them to be able immediately, on
- speakeraccount of this, to move into the international thing and to be able to do be competent in English
- speakeris too much. For this reason, not because I
- speakerthink that I will be very competent, and I expect to spend some time trying to make my
- speakerFrench usable enough so that I won't want to put on the interpreters when others are speaking.
- speakerI probably won't do much speaking in French unless it is something that is
- speakerperfectly. Because the hard thing is to say the thing you want to in the foreign language. It
- speakeris not too hard to understand if you've got enough practice and have a vocabulary, which
- speakerfortunately I reading. I can read French but the hearing of it with different people is
- speakerdifficult. Now, but this is communication problem. With the German, it would be great
- speakerif I had more than restaurant German, but I don't. I can get along in Germany
- speakerif if somebody doesn't know it. And, you can get along in Eastern Europe with German or French
- speakerusually, if their English isn't good, although English still now is the best one most
- speakerwhere you go because of the number of Americans traveling.
- speakerThe real lack that I bring, as compared to my distinguished predecessor, is
- speakerthat I am mono cultural rather than monolingual. Now this
- speakermeans. I'm talking. And, this is a real limitation and one reason why I would never have
- speakerthought of applying for the job. But, my predecessor until.
- speakerWell. For forty years has read all the
- speakerbooks that he judged important bearing upon the ecumenical movement and Christian
- speakertheology in French, German, English, and Dutch.
- speakerAnd, he's a disciplined man, and he's read more than most executives
- speakerread in any language. So. This gives you a kind of a
- speakerbackground of understanding, of knowledge specific. But.
- speakerMay I say to you that he is also good because
- speakerhe knows the Orthodox churches, but he doesn't speak the Greek, which he should
- speakerif he were going to be perfect. But he hasn't done too badly,
- speakerhowever, with the Orthodox. He doesn't speak any Russian. He can't even speak to his grandchildren, who are in Italian. I found he
- speakerhe was very irritated because these little kids of one of his
- speakergrandchildren, they were speaking Italian all over the house, and he's not used to not being able to
- speakerunderstand what people are saying.
- speakerNow on the other and this may be a part of the value.
- speakerI know what the problem is existentially the way he did not. And I think
- speakerthat some of the translation interpretation things for those who don't handle
- speakerthe other language may be good. Now.
- speakerSo in the fall one of the reasons, besides wanting to have a little bit of break in
- speakeradministration, if I can, because it's the last one until I retire. I can see that. I hope to
- speakerdo a little reading in French theology just for getting
- speakersome of the things that haven't been translated, that otherwise. I haven't had time to read all the books in
- speakerEnglish that I want to read in these last 15 years. So I hope to do that and hope to get
- speakermy language up, but I will know that, in other words, my position with regard
- speakerto the German church will be like my predecessor's with regard to the Greek Church. Now,
- speakerthat doesn't mean it is impossible to understand what is moving them, but it does mean
- speakerthat you are not as good at it as you would be if you had the language and the
- speakerand the reading background.
- speakerSame thing would be true of Russian. Russian would be a fine thing to learn too, as well as Romanian and
- speakerHungarian, but
- speakerwe're not going to do that. And, I don't have as long. So that I would say that my usefulness
- speakeris partly because, despite the language thing, in English or other ways
- speakerwhy I have, I think, during this 15 years, had a rather unusual opportunity to listen and
- speakermaybe learn from people, who fortunately most of the time were speaking in my own language,
- speakerand I think I do have some background of what the German church is like and the French church although I
- speakerwouldn't in the slightest claim to to be
- speakertrained in those ideas. That that is a
- speakerpremise. You may want to say,"Thank you, Mr. Stated Clerk." You're welcome. We are planning.
- speakerCarefully. Wednesday.
- speakerWe want to. Know. You.
- speakerKnow. I'll do anything I can. OK.