Eugene Carson Blake press conference, May 21, 1966.

Primary tabs

Download

  • speaker
    Yes. Mrs. White from TIME magazine, Doctor Blake. Most of these people you know what I to do. You know
  • speaker
    I did talk to Mrs. White when I was getting a cup of coffee this morning. Thank you, Dr. Blake. Would you please relate the Confession of 1967 to the Church union? Does this document make the stance of the Presbyterian Church in relation to Union to other denominations easier or more difficult? Let
  • speaker
    me make a straight comment and then if I haven't answered your question afterwards
  • speaker
    I would say the stance that the new altered confessional position [Confession of 67] is
  • speaker
    in line with ecumenical theology as
  • speaker
    to what churches, ought, the way in which churches ought to confess the faith.
  • speaker
    In that sense, but limited to that sense, it puts us in a
  • speaker
    better way to have
  • speaker
    a united church. But it does not mean that we are doing something
  • speaker
    in order to be like another church, that we are doing something because the
  • speaker
    ecumenical theology is pressing all the churches to confess the faith this way.That
  • speaker
    is to say the principle. The thing that's happened in the last five years is quite
  • speaker
    clear. Everybody, including the Roman Catholics, now accepts the Reformation
  • speaker
    principle of continual Reformation. This is. It
  • speaker
    was Hans Küng who first realized that reformation could be used
  • speaker
    positively by Roman Catholics. And this is a symbol, you see, of a thing. But
  • speaker
    it's the ecumenical theology pressing all the churches. And so that we're doing it.
  • speaker
    And it's it's the kind of thing that Hans Kung said. "The best, the best,
  • speaker
    contribution to unity the Roman Catholic Church can make," he wrote, "was
  • speaker
    to be the best Roman Catholic Church it could be." And I would
  • speaker
    say the same thing for the United Presbyterian Church. The best contribution we make is
  • speaker
    to be reformed under the word. I'm putting it in the, in the particular thing. And, that's what this is intended
  • speaker
    to do.
  • speaker
    With the dream. Or else fragile
  • speaker
    capacity.
  • speaker
    Yeah.
  • speaker
    On the. Oh.
  • speaker
    Yes I'll comment on it.
  • speaker
    Yes I'm sure I'm going to miss it George but.
  • speaker
    I was reminding the girls looked a little harried back in the office
  • speaker
    that when we have a World Council meeting we've got. Two other things that we have to
  • speaker
    do to get the papers out before the people. They have to be translated into the other two
  • speaker
    official languages.
  • speaker
    And the Re-Read and then mimeographed and got out so that they really are getting off very
  • speaker
    easy.
  • speaker
    It's all in something that is near English if my Canadian friend will. Bob Schwartz from Pittsburgh Press. There seems to be a paradox in leadership, that a strong leader is railroading and a weak one doesn't get anything accomplished. Could you sign a document of reconciliation?
  • speaker
    Yes I think that. One should recognize
  • speaker
    that Presbyterians. Partly because of the history
  • speaker
    are very
  • speaker
    worried about personal decision
  • speaker
    power or personal authority. We give very little to anybody
  • speaker
    anywhere under the rules. A lot of people
  • speaker
    don't make the distinction between that and influence. And, it's perfectly clear
  • speaker
    that 15 years in my position gives me more influence than many.
  • speaker
    And, you just cannot work any way, if a man is at all
  • speaker
    effective, not to have that influence grow. Now the two overtures
  • speaker
    that were turned down this morning which were not commented on
  • speaker
    in general but they were no action taken on them. Left as I
  • speaker
    judge very wisely that within the rules we can
  • speaker
    replace the Stated Clerk every five years easily. There are good ways to do
  • speaker
    it. Easily only if, however, there
  • speaker
    is a general feeling they ought to be replaced.
  • speaker
    And this this I think is the way a body should do. But I
  • speaker
    am committed to and as I shall be saying next Wednesday in a briefing
  • speaker
    I I believe in the system. And, I think that
  • speaker
    ecclesiastical decisions, and I'm agreeing with the Roman Catholic Church's new stance in
  • speaker
    this now, ought to be in ordered groups rather than in
  • speaker
    personal decision. But under the policy, anybody who is an
  • speaker
    executive of anything has to decide whether he's going to carry it out or
  • speaker
    is going to forget it. And. I am one of those who entered into this
  • speaker
    thing from the pastorate because I thought certain things ought to be done that couldn't be
  • speaker
    done from the pastorate.
  • speaker
    And I think some of them have happened. Aubrey Brown. Yes, Aubrey. What are you. What do you consider to be  some of the significant differences in this church today from, say,  fifteen to twenty years ago?  I
  • speaker
    think that it is quite clear that most of the
  • speaker
    people recognize that the greatest weakness
  • speaker
    of our church 15 years ago was it's being a class Church
  • speaker
    generally.
  • speaker
    Now I don't want to criticize the past. We have a very fine record
  • speaker
    as against the new peoples who moved in the beginning from the beginning of the 20th century
  • speaker
    on. I don't know how many languages the gospel is still preached in, in our churches every
  • speaker
    Sunday. So it wasn't that. But basically we were there.
  • speaker
    I let me reminisce when I was a pastor. I had a labor
  • speaker
    leader come to me seriously and say, "Is
  • speaker
    there a place in the membership of the Presbyterian church for me?"
  • speaker
    He looked at our session. He looked at our trustees. He looked
  • speaker
    at our general membership and he wasn't sure that he belonged
  • speaker
    because it was so overwhelmingly on the side of management and
  • speaker
    those who are the clerical people.
  • speaker
    And it is still true that our church basically
  • speaker
    has been made up of people whose personal interests
  • speaker
    would be that way.
  • speaker
    Now I think we have moved both,
  • speaker
    in the public way and in particular ways, to try to make it clear
  • speaker
    that we are trying to be a Christian church rather than a fraternity of a
  • speaker
    certain kind and class of people. I'd say that's the number one thing
  • speaker
    that I think some progress has been made.
  • speaker
    Maybe that's a general unless you want to press for something else. I think we have moved ecumenically but
  • speaker
    this has been a development. Inevitably we would have in these
  • speaker
    15 years. I am happy at the
  • speaker
    relationship of the United Presbyterian Church toward the tremendous
  • speaker
    programs of the National Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches. I think we
  • speaker
    are more committed to, and understanding of,
  • speaker
    those ecumenical organizations and from. Now, if I may shift to the
  • speaker
    prospective position which I'll be speaking it is quite clear that
  • speaker
    the United Presbyterian Church is one of the very important churches to
  • speaker
    make whatever the World Council wants to do
  • speaker
    possible, both by money, by interest, by general support of
  • speaker
    persons. This is very clear. And, I think it's
  • speaker
    partly because we have in this 15 years developed
  • speaker
    a theory that these things are not extras, that they are the extension
  • speaker
    of this church's own life, and it is not in the
  • speaker
    denominational pattern. You just cannot take these as as
  • speaker
    electives. If they are not perfect, and they are not, then get in there and pitch
  • speaker
    and make them better. That's the only answer. There is no other way. Well, I just wanted to ask you are willing to tell what you. When do you expect final action on the Confession? Well,
  • speaker
    it will be either Monday or Tuesday. I think. I mean
  • speaker
    that would be my guess. I would guess that we probably won't get through Monday we might. I
  • speaker
    think it could have been voted the first night.
  • speaker
    That was not the way it was docketed because we didn't know that that would be at the time.
  • speaker
    But Monday morning now at 9:00 we hope to have a half hour to clean up the
  • speaker
    amendment system.
  • speaker
    Now they may want to make some more amendments, and they're free to do it if they want to. I don't know what the. But I
  • speaker
    don't think that the Assembly itself will let people
  • speaker
    make very many more amendments especially if they're just like the ones that have been already voted down
  • speaker
    so that the assembly will take care of that amending process. Then we will
  • speaker
    have to ask whether people want to have a five minute
  • speaker
    limit say on speeches pro and con without the amendments and those
  • speaker
    amendments won't be in order. Not withstanding. I mean we this body can make a
  • speaker
    rule that they finished with amending. And now, we're going to discuss the whole question
  • speaker
    pro and con.
  • speaker
    I hope that we get enough of that in the time either late
  • speaker
    Monday afternoon or the time that it's docketed for Tuesday afternoon
  • speaker
    to get the vote. At the latest,
  • speaker
    Tuesday afternoon possibility of Monday afternoon, if there isn't anything that people want. They don't want to
  • speaker
    talk that long.
  • speaker
    It may be. Worchester Telegram. Well
  • speaker
    I tell you. Nobody is indispensable.
  • speaker
    There are a lot of things that aren't finished yet. As the man said
  • speaker
    when he was asked how much it cost to make his red nose. But
  • speaker
    the the point that I would feel
  • speaker
    there are some very good denominational leaders. Some of them
  • speaker
    will take certain jobs that I have had. These are already and
  • speaker
    they will they will get along all right. One way or another I'm sure. The
  • speaker
    new president of the Consultation on Church Union, Dave Colwell [Colwell, David G.],  is an
  • speaker
    important leader the United Church of Christ. Bishop Hines [Hines, John E.] is taken one of my World Council
  • speaker
    jobs. He has only begun to exercise
  • speaker
    his national leadership ecumenically, one of the strongest men we have
  • speaker
    in that whole area, quite clearly. I am. I don't
  • speaker
    want to go on and mention too many, then I will leave somebody out but
  • speaker
    I don't think that it always. You know, I'm surprised a young woman like you asking the question when we get
  • speaker
    older we always think that the leadership isn't what it used to be. But, it
  • speaker
    always seems to come along. And one of the chances. You don't get a chance to lead unless you're there. What will be your relation to the Consultation the World Council?  If
  • speaker
    it fits in with my with my program
  • speaker
    of next year. And I don't. I'm not really committing myself to much of anything until I see get over there and see what
  • speaker
    I have to do. I will try to be, at their request, the World Council
  • speaker
    representatives for the next meeting of the Consultation.
  • speaker
    I can't actually commit myself now because I just don't know what other decisions may have been made
  • speaker
    before I get to be General Secretary. But I asked them not to
  • speaker
    press it beyond that, because I have an idea
  • speaker
    that in the six months that I will know better than I would now as to whether any continuing
  • speaker
    relationship would be embarrassing either to the World Council or the Consultation. And
  • speaker
    I think that by that time also they will be
  • speaker
    getting along without my personal. The executive committee will have had a years experience without me
  • speaker
    there.
  • speaker
    It may be a great improvement. Have. Have you talked further with? Made any further definite plans about what kind of continuing arrangement  you think that Dr. Visser t'Hooft [Visser t'Hooft, Willem A.] might occupy? I
  • speaker
    have announced publicly that I would make some things. I think probably this
  • speaker
    isn't the proper place for me to make concrete. But, I can say to you that I think he and
  • speaker
    I agree as to what I will do it. And, I expect the executive committee to agree
  • speaker
    to it. Which will, in general when I can. I'm happy here. I want to find a way to make
  • speaker
    the fullest use of his experience and powers within his own limitations
  • speaker
    of what he wants to do for the World Council, which will be a good deal, I hope. And
  • speaker
    what his interests are. It will not be specified, specific. It will be a general
  • speaker
    relationship of some kind that is satisfactory to him. I hope
  • speaker
    we can give him some help in carrying out,
  • speaker
    carrying over correspondence and things like that, that he will have to do. He's.
  • speaker
    I'm sure welcome to an office in the headquarters if he wants one. When will the executive committee meet first
  • speaker
    After I take office it will be in February. And,
  • speaker
    I forget where we're meeting
  • speaker
    next February. It's still hard to keep those in mind. We're going to some interesting places with different meetings. We're going to be
  • speaker
    in.
  • speaker
    There will be a meeting. That's before I take office though I was saying at a meeting in
  • speaker
    Geneva this summer and in August early August with the executive committee. And, this will be a
  • speaker
    rather odd one. I won't. I'm no longer a member of the executive committee since February.
  • speaker
    And. But Dr. Visser t'Hooft and  I agree that we would make proposals together to this
  • speaker
    meeting because we were. So we've been working on certain proposals in the meantime.
  • speaker
    Jimmy Johnson, Milwaukee Sentinel.
  • speaker
    It is possible the World Council may have another meeting in the United States? It is possible that there'll be another meeting. We were in Rochester not too long ago. What year was that?
  • speaker
    Sixty-three. Sixty-three. So that within these years there may be a
  • speaker
    central committee or an executive committee. These are the ones that move
  • speaker
    around the different areas. I don't think we've planned very much beyond
  • speaker
    the Uppsala assembly, which is the summer of 68. We plan to be in the summer
  • speaker
    of 67 on the island of Crete for the Central Committee. That's the next central committee,
  • speaker
    and then the assembly is in Sweden in 68. And, the
  • speaker
    executive committee. I think there's one I believe,  we're to be in England, and perhaps that's next
  • speaker
    next winter. I think we're going to meet at Windsor or someplace near
  • speaker
    the Windsor Castle if I remember rightly. In all your worldwide activities, will you be able to keep your roots in this church?  And, if so, how? Well
  • speaker
    I'm a member, and I expect to continue so, as long as I behave myself, in good standing of Los Angeles
  • speaker
    presbytery.
  • speaker
    I'll have to be careful.
  • speaker
    Well I have to report to keep in good standing, and we'll do that. I have their
  • speaker
    permission to accept the job, which Dr. Visser t'Hooft asked
  • speaker
    and received. And.
  • speaker
    So and I asked that he that I be given that permission.
  • speaker
    I have doubtless will have some contacts with certain things, but I'll have to be a little
  • speaker
    overcareful to. My guess is that
  • speaker
    that I will be able to make certain appearances in
  • speaker
    this country from time to time. But they'll probably be mostly denominational meetings
  • speaker
    and probably be other than the United Presbyterian Church more often than United
  • speaker
    Presbyterian. Did they give you permission to labor outside the bounds of Los Angeles Presbytery?  Oh,
  • speaker
    their bounds go so far west that it practically gets to Geneva.
  • speaker
    Dr. Blake.  You are saying you are still in the L.A. Presbytery. You have been considered a Philadelphian for fifteen years. I wonder why you haven't?  Did you ever consider transferring? Oh, yes. The oldest presbytery in the country?
  • speaker
    Chamber of Commerce Yes.
  • speaker
    But the problem is really in pity for New York and Philadelphia presbyteries.Mainly that we
  • speaker
    don't have a rule requiring each of us to come to the presbytery of our residence.
  • speaker
    The national bureaucracy, which is somewhat larger than was contemplated
  • speaker
    in the Form of Government written in the 18th century, does mean that
  • speaker
    if too many. There is no prohibit prohibition against it. But if too many
  • speaker
    moved in the place of their residence, when they have national responsibility, it would
  • speaker
    overwhelm and distort the judicatories.
  • speaker
    So what is done, according to the rules, is to consider it, and your employing
  • speaker
    agency decides.
  • speaker
    Since I was the first Stated Clerk who had not been a member of a presbytery in the Synod of Pennsylvania since
  • speaker
    1789, it seemed to me that it might be just as well symbolically to stay in Los
  • speaker
    Angeles.
  • speaker
    Very good reason. George. Back on the Creed, Dr. Blake. What is your feeling about the fact that much of the, many of those who have been quite critical of the Creed have now indicated their support?  Well, I
  • speaker
    think that it's because our amendment process is a good one.
  • speaker
    And that's was what irritated me frankly during the early fall when all of these
  • speaker
    presbyteries were overturing for a delay before they. They were crying out before they
  • speaker
    were hurt. And the. So, that all that I did during this
  • speaker
    year was to be sure that we didn't get a landslide for delay before we found out
  • speaker
    what was happening. And, I did try to take actions to make it clear that this
  • speaker
    was not, in my judgment, good order to do it. Because the Constitution
  • speaker
    does provide for this year for amendments. The thing that some didn't seem to
  • speaker
    see in the in the process is that there were
  • speaker
    three things that this Committee of 15 could do. One would be to do nothing do it because they liked it
  • speaker
    so well. The other would be to amend it because they liked it well enough to feel that it should go with some
  • speaker
    amendments. That's what happened. The third would have been. We've tried
  • speaker
    our hand at this, and it is so impossible we don't think it's ready. And, that was what I
  • speaker
    told the Committee of 15 they must do if they couldn't do their work in the year. Because it says to the next
  • speaker
    ensuing. And the reason for that, and I think that this is the point that a great
  • speaker
    many people missed. If it had to be redone thoroughly, this Committee of 15 was not the one to do it at
  • speaker
    all. We would have to start again and pick other theologians who were
  • speaker
    more competent than the first theologians, who are the people that must
  • speaker
    write the theological. You just can't get a committee, and say, "Well. It must be all grassroots
  • speaker
    people because the grassroots is the church." If that's the case, then you've got a
  • speaker
    complete anti-intellectualism, which of course I have tried to
  • speaker
    resist.
  • speaker
    I don't think we can be a second-class Pentecostal church. Dean Peerman of Christian Century.
  • speaker
    Earlier, you touched on the multi-lingual aspects of the World Council's work. And, I heard some doubts expressed  about your facility in this respect. Will this be a problem? How seriously will this be a problem? expressed. For operation English is the language that is necessary for the World Council of Churches.
  • speaker
    You have to have English. The. Most
  • speaker
    people speak English in the committees of the World Council of Churches. Most
  • speaker
    of the business is done. Once in a while there will be a French-speaking committee because it's Geneva
  • speaker
    and you are doing a housekeeping kind of job or something like that.
  • speaker
    So French is very useful for the locale of the headquarters. It
  • speaker
    is also one of the official languages and becomes particularly useful now
  • speaker
    because of the number of churches in the former French and Belgian
  • speaker
    colonies of Africa.
  • speaker
    I remind you that the representatives of those churches that French is about the third language that
  • speaker
    those men have as a rule and to expect them to be able immediately, on
  • speaker
    account of this, to move into the international thing and to be able to do be competent in English
  • speaker
    is too much. For this reason, not because I
  • speaker
    think that I will be very competent, and I expect to spend some time trying to make my
  • speaker
    French usable enough so that I won't want to put on the interpreters when others are speaking.
  • speaker
    I probably won't do much speaking in French unless it is something that is
  • speaker
    perfectly. Because the hard thing is to say the thing you want to in the foreign language. It
  • speaker
    is not too hard to understand if you've got enough practice and have a vocabulary, which
  • speaker
    fortunately I reading. I can read French but the hearing of it with different people is
  • speaker
    difficult. Now, but this is communication problem. With the German, it would be great
  • speaker
    if I had more than restaurant German, but I don't. I can get along in Germany
  • speaker
    if if somebody doesn't know it. And, you can get along in Eastern Europe with German or French
  • speaker
    usually, if their English isn't good, although English still now is the best one most
  • speaker
    where you go because of the number of Americans traveling.
  • speaker
    The real lack that I bring, as compared to my distinguished predecessor, is
  • speaker
    that I am mono cultural rather than monolingual. Now this
  • speaker
    means. I'm talking. And, this is a real limitation and one reason why I would never have
  • speaker
    thought of applying for the job. But, my predecessor until.
  • speaker
    Well. For forty years has read all the
  • speaker
    books that he judged important bearing upon the ecumenical movement and Christian
  • speaker
    theology in French, German, English, and Dutch.
  • speaker
    And, he's a disciplined man, and he's read more than most executives
  • speaker
    read in any language. So. This gives you a kind of a
  • speaker
    background of understanding, of knowledge specific. But.
  • speaker
    May I say to you that he is also good because
  • speaker
    he knows the Orthodox churches, but he doesn't speak the Greek, which he should
  • speaker
    if he were going to be perfect. But he hasn't done too badly,
  • speaker
    however, with the Orthodox. He doesn't speak any Russian. He can't even speak to his grandchildren, who are in  Italian. I found he
  • speaker
    he was very irritated because these little kids of one of his
  • speaker
    grandchildren, they were speaking Italian all over the house, and he's not used to not being able to
  • speaker
    understand what people are saying.
  • speaker
    Now on the other and this may be a part of the value.
  • speaker
    I know what the problem is existentially the way he did not. And I think
  • speaker
    that some of the translation interpretation things for those who don't handle
  • speaker
    the other language may be good. Now.
  • speaker
    So in the fall one of the reasons, besides wanting to have a little bit of break in
  • speaker
    administration, if I can, because it's the last one until I retire. I can see that. I hope to
  • speaker
    do a little reading in French theology just for getting
  • speaker
    some of the things that haven't been translated, that otherwise. I haven't had time to read all the books in
  • speaker
    English that I want to read in these last 15 years. So I hope to do that and hope to get
  • speaker
    my language up, but I will know that, in other words, my position with regard
  • speaker
    to the German church will be like my predecessor's with regard to the Greek Church. Now,
  • speaker
    that doesn't mean it is impossible to understand what is moving them, but it does mean
  • speaker
    that you are not as good at it as you would be if you had the language and the
  • speaker
    and the reading background.
  • speaker
    Same thing would be true of Russian. Russian would be a fine thing to learn too, as well as Romanian and
  • speaker
    Hungarian, but
  • speaker
    we're not going to do that. And, I don't have as long. So that I would say that my usefulness
  • speaker
    is partly because, despite the language thing, in English or other ways
  • speaker
    why I have, I think, during this 15 years, had a rather unusual opportunity to listen and
  • speaker
    maybe learn from people, who fortunately most of the time were speaking in my own language,
  • speaker
    and I think I do have some background of what the German church is like and the French church although I
  • speaker
    wouldn't in the slightest claim to to be
  • speaker
    trained in those ideas. That that is a
  • speaker
    premise. You may want to say,"Thank you, Mr. Stated Clerk." You're welcome. We are planning.
  • speaker
    Carefully. Wednesday.
  • speaker
    We want to. Know. You.
  • speaker
    Know. I'll do anything I can. OK.

Bookmark

BookBags: