Board of National Missions miners hospitals discussions, April 1963, tape 6.

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I recommend the tour it's covering a number of them that we were discussing yesterday on the
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special report on Health and Welfare. [Bob Barrie] Before we begin our discussion, I would like to
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ask Dr. Neigh [Neigh, Kenneth Glenn] if he can suggest some way that we
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might proceed here, perhaps save a little more time.
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[Neigh] Well, during the interim between these
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two meetings, two people have
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indicated that they would like make
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statements. The first is Dr. Heydinger [Heydinger, David K.], who would like to speak a few minutes.
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and I don't think anybody can confine himself to three minutes on this debate. I would
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like to say, as you do make your statement, that there is
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something that you can probably ought to
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speak to and that is an impression that sums up
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as an alternative plan.
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Here, Mr. Rogers [Rogers, Lon B.], who
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is the member of the Board [Board of National Missions] from this whole area.
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I think it will be well for us to hear from Mr. Rogers.
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Questions were raised yesterday aboht the seventy-five thousand dollars, which is
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involved on the part of the Board of National Missions. I think it is
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well for you to hear very briefly from the
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Director of the Budget, Dr. Stewart. [Stewart, Archibald K.] And, then,
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since there seems to be some
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question in the minds of some of the Board people as to where I stand on this, I
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think that, if the Board will permit me, I would like to make a statement
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also on this. Now, I think that we. [Barrie]
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Dr. Heydinger first. Mr. President, may I ask if we have any time scheduled
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or limitation on debate in mind on this thing? Or should it be considered? Or shall we
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considered? Or shall we take as long as necessary even if we?
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I think we should. Duly, in
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my judgment, is on, I think, the thing has been thoroughly explored,
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or is that asking too much? Well, that's
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putting him on the spot. I'll sit on the front seat and see how you think, Bill. [William C. Latta]
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Right. I concur. I think that this, what I am trying to
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say, Bob, is this. I don't think we can limit it perhaps to any
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particular time scheduled, but I think we can all pretty much
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realize is the picture formed? Is there anything more to add to the picture?
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And, if you are willing to trust my judgment, when I think the picture is complete
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I am willing. I think that is the best I can say.
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So. Then, I think I would call on Dr.
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Heydinger [Heydinger, David K.] first, if this is agreeable, doctor?
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East
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[Heydinger] Last night I said to Ken that I would like three minutes. That was
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before I walked your lovely streets until about two thirty.
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And so I really need to speak to you again, for, and
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I hope you'll forgive me for reading some of this, but I want to be as brief as possible because I wrote it down.
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I said I hope you'll forgive me for reading some of this, but I wrote it down in
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contradistinction to that which I gave yesterday.
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And I need to speak to you again because I think I can show you what
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has been wrongly termed as two sides of this problem. Actually I think we're quite
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close together, but I think I base my decision from a different training
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background.
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There is and has been so little time for you to make a really tremendous decision here, but it
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has to be made. And I think that I can outline each side for you briefly, and I
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hope fairly, so that perhaps your decision will be easier
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As I said I did not prepare the talk I gave yesterday purposely because I wanted to
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await anything new that might be forthcoming from the speakers yesterday that hopefully
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might change my mind. And nothing did. I'm afraid that the
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best that might be said for the unprepared presentation yesterday was that it showed
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conviction and please not courage. Courage, I
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think, is when you do something knowing that you might or your loved one might be hurt. And,
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since this as yet isn't that type of battle, courage must be when you get up in front of a group like
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this and say something you don't believe in. I say this because the
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interpretation of my statements were, that I made yesterday, were not what I was
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attempting to say. For example I didn't say, as Dr
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Rosenfeld [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] said, that several hospitals would close if we took them over. I said one or two
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might close. Bob Barrie and I have told them constantly down there that, of course, we might have to close one or
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two of the hospitals maybe temporarily. It depended on the circumstances. But
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let me begin. Number one both sides if you wish it that way we both
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agree as to the need. Number two we both agree that it's an
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exciting and challenging situation which to me has fantastic possibilities
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and actually just in the policy that we as a board accepted to try and start in the
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southwest that's what's so good about.
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Number three we both agree that the large capital expenditures can be procured.
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We are both, I think, fearful of many of the little facets
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of this. The continuing funds that we'll need for example. Can
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the legislature continue to help these hospitals, as the governor [Combs, Bert T.] said,
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and not get such a cry that they won't help all of the hospitals in Kentucky that are running
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in the red? And many of them are, I can assure you. Will the Area
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Medical administrators of the United Mine Workers, who really control the purse strings,
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for medical care of miners, will they continue to send their patients to our hospitals
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which we know will run at least at a thirty five dollars per diem cost, when
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another and frankly a good hospital such as it is in Beckley, will do it for
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twenty seven dollars per diem? Don't forget that research and teaching are
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expensive.
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I have to see how I wrote this. I wrote it on sides of things that I'm not sure of
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frankly and I don't know where I went from there
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I apologize. I must go through this again.
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There are many more of these in this
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matter of money, but I leave that to the Finance Committee, but I think we both agree that these are quite
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possibly surmountable. Four, we both agree that the scientific
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personnel and administrative staffs are there and that it's possible to keep at least, and I
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think this is a little optimistic, eighty percent of these to continue the operation of these
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hospitals.
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But now we come to the area of disagreement.
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Now, when I said yesterday that we do not have the organization to accomplish
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this in the time allotted, I obviously was not referring to what Dr
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Rosenfeld [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] says was a fully organized staff. I realize that they are fully organized. But this is what I
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was. I was not referring to this. Let me tell you the organization we must have.
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The area board that has been suggested cannot do the job of which I
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speak because this is a board of volunteers, just as this board is, and they only
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have a certain limited amount of time. Also it's going to take a moderate amount of time to choose this
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board and more time to educate them to the problem and the desires of our church in
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running such hospitals. And, we don't even know what those are for sure. Now
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the full time executive of which they spoke, and to which I agree, may be a
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help in doing this, but to get a really qualified man in a position like this takes
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time. And, no really good man can just suddenly quit his job and start out
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tomorrow. Therefore think of the organization you must have.
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Someone, probably a physician or a medical economist at best, who also
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must be in accord with our philosophy for these hospitals, must immediately
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go and talk to these medical staffs. Now this just isn't at Harlan and the other four
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hospitals that we're considering as our first five. But the other five as well.
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the Beckley physicians have told me four times since I left there and a number of times when I
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was there, that even though they may not fall in this first group, someone must talk to
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them as soon as we make up our minds and appraise them of our policy.
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Appraise them of our policy on--Are we going to have a closed or an Open Stack? And, I'm sure
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many of you do not know what we mean by this. Are we going to continue research?
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They said they don't want to get in the large group, they only want to be with a man hospital. Will they
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get Social Security, four of them wanted to know because they won't stay in it unless they could get Social
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Security. And, I can go on and on and on, and this must be done soon. Or, as they
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told me, they will lose some of their men. Now, we spoke of being able,
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because of our set up to procure physicians or Dr Rosenfeld did.
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For example they have research labs, tremendous labs in
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pulmonary cardiology research. Now, I don't know if Betty
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knows what a pulmonary cardio physiologist is or not,
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but these are hard to get. And, these are the men we are going to have to get. And, if you don't have them, you're
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immediately going to lose a high percent of your beneficiaries because these are pulmonary problems. These are
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just the little things that must be gone. We've lost one already at Harlan. He's gone. The only other
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one we have in this group, I believe, although I'm not sure Williamson is at Beckley.
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and Dr Wilder told me that they were afraid they were going to lose him to the Mayo Clinic.
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Do you think that Harlan and the other hospitals in this group can set up their own private practice group?
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Absolutely not. These men have had no experience in this especially in Harlan.
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And, yet we have said they must set up a private practice group. Now let me
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give you an example. At one of the hospitals we plan to purchase in this first group, one of the
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physicians, and this is fine, has assumed a head of this possible future group.
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Yet several of the physicians came to me, and these were three key physicians
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there, and said that if this man takes over as head of this group, we're going to leave. These are the
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little things that someone's going to have to be there to do. As I say, these are
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just a few of the problems in the organization that must be met but they must be met quickly because we must
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stop this already increasing outflow of professional personnel that's
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going on right now. If we need more in
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this organization. Who's going to be the man who's going to be talking to the Kentucky state legislators for
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example to see that we get what we frankly must have from them. Someone's going to have to be
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there we can't just say well they said they'll do it now let's we'll just let them do it. Who's going
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to barter with the Kentucky State Medical Association to drop the no offices in the
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hospital. Effect. Sure it can be done. It will take you nine months
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This must be done for the longer again each of these little problems remain unsolved, more and
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more nurses, technicians, therapists, and physicians will be leaving. They don't have the
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motivation. I feel that we say we have. Who's going to be
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talking to the United States government to arrange the money we need and arrange in a manner
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acceptable to our church?
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Who's going to dicker with the United Mine Workers. And I mean dicker though that is legally
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acceptable to our legal department and down in a legal manner, that they will
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continue to send miner beneficiaries to our hospitals
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and to send them in the quantity demanded by the report to make these hospitals run in the black.
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Now this includes assurance that they won't, as they once did,
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take away some of these benefits, to take away some of the medical benefits from the
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beneficiaries. Did you know that in the larger hospitals, and these are our
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mainstay in this, that much of the OR some of their income and a fair amount at Beckley
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comes from beneficiaries flown in from all over the country. Now who is going to
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get signed sealed and delivered that this will continue. That they won't send them to the
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university hospitals that they used to send them to. And of course they're going to have to if we lose
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our cardiopulmonary physiologist for example. They'll have to send them to the other hospitals.
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Who's going to talk to the private physicians in these towns
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and explain to them our and the area problem and get them to
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agree to our method of set up, which we don't even know as yet, but I think it can be
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done. But again this is going to take someone in there to do it, because we have some highly vocal
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Presbyterians in these groups.
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And this is, I'd like to beat a couple of them in the head, if you want my honest opinion. And, I hope this isn't being
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recorded. Now this in itself,
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these private physicians, for example, will take several wise and well known
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physicians dedicated to our work.
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They must even talk one or two of the physicians, that is in one or two of these towns, into
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letting our doctors as we call them now, be in the county medical society, which they
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never have in Pikeville, for example. I was talking in another town to even let them join the Country
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Club, which they have in mind.
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[Heydinger] I could go on and on and, but I think you can see what a top notch organization this
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is going to take to accomplish this. And, this is the organization of which I spoke. They can't
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do it themselves. They can run the hospital, but this is not enough at this time.
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It must be done now. I feel it can be done, but I
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feel it cannot be properly done in the time allotted to us.
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The time factor, which is dictated by the situation is beating us. That's all there
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is to it, And this is where we disagree, I think. Bob [Bob Barrie] is sure it can be done
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in the time allotted.
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I am sure it cannot and end up with the type of hospitals we would want as
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representing us. And, this is a really a very small disagreement,
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frankly. Then I apologize, but I must add something else, a very
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important fact. I mention to you James McGilvray's [McGilvray, James Clifford] report to our Division in the hopes
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that some of you would like to read it, and no one requested it. And this is
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wrong.
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I remind you that he is in full time work in our church. He was in the
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hospital consulting field, just as Dr Rosenfeld [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] is. He has had tremendous
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experience in setting up hospitals in India and especially in the Philippines, where by the
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way he developed a group of hospitals into much the same type of set up that we are trying to do.
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He and several others, and this is the reason I requested this be a
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family meeting. He and several others at the Lexington meeting felt that Dr
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Rosenfeld's figures were not realistic and that we as a church
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did not have the resources to properly do the job.
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In the time allotted I think he would add. So there is your problem.
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Believe me, whatever your decision is I know it will be right.
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Now how do I know this well I know it because the Division of Health and Welfare, both the Board and the
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staff, will work like mad to prove you're right. We're not going to take our tin
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dishes and go home whichever way you decide. I would like to straighten you out on
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another misconception.
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Gordon Corbett [Synod of Kentucky Executive] who is here came to me at dinner last night and wanted to know the name of the organization
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I said was ready to take over if we didn't take it.
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I did not make such a statement. I said that we did not accept. That I said that
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if we did not accept, we have given to anyone who wants to take over, a plan which a
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highly respectable consulting firm says is feasible. Secondly I
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said that I had a long session with a friend from George Washington University School of Medicine and from this came
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an idea which possibly might not only maintain the hospitals but bring money into the area.
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Gordon asked me then could they do it by Wednesday. And this
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bothers me, not what you say, Gordon, but that this was brought up yesterday. You know I resent
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very frankly what was said yesterday that, to the board, that you have until
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Wednesday. And if you don't do it no one else will do it. This statement was made.
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Do you see what is happening? This is, this is a little bit of the harm that
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comes from continuing in this, and this harm we accepted, and we
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must. You know this is like a chronically ill patient. Doctors have this happen all the time. And
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this is a chronically ill patient by the way down there. This is like a chronically ill patient,
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who after a while, because the doctor isn't doing what he thinks ought to be done, begins to
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blame the doctor for his illness. And this is what's happening here, they said.
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If we don't take it no one else will, and they implied then, that if these people came
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out with poor medical care, it would be our fault. And, this is no good. This is
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something we must watch because, of course, we have a responsibility
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to them. But others have a responsibility too. They say no other organization
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has come forth. I say that we are preventing other organizations from coming forth. The newspapers
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have been constantly talking of our negotiations, that is between the Presbyterians the
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United Mine Workers. Of course, we have a moral responsibility, but others do too. The state of
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Kentucky has a moral responsibility to keep these open. I'm sorry, I never in my life
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before said a governor was wrong. But the governor of Kentucky was wrong. They are practicing
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medicine. I can show you beautiful hospitals that they pay all the physicians and are practicing medicine.
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Of course they can practice medicine. The United Mine Workers has the greatest moral
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responsibility of all. They brought it in. They built the hospitals, and now they're closing it.
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Ken [Neigh, Kenneth Glenn] was right when he spoke of our role to reconcile. And, but maybe we can reconcile our
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positions. I mention to you that I had another idea.
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I did not want to mention it, because all you need to do is get this idea out of this room from
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coming from not the right source. And, I'm not the right source. But, I do know one or two it could be. And,
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you would immediately ruin it.
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[Heydinger] Believe me this is the way this works. But, I want to tell you. I think maybe there is an answer to this
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I think it's time we throw the ball back to them a little bit. I'm a little tired of this position of
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the United Mine Workers no give. We're closing July the first will operate untiil October the first
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with this is three months this is nothing. I don't know exactly what you might want to say,
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but first of all I think we do not have the resources to
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stop the closing. Why don't we say this. You know
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sometimes it's better to cut off a leg to save a life. And maybe it wouldn't
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be too bad if these hospitals had to close. I'm personally, but I won't
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go into this, not sure they will. But at the same time, this doesn't mean they have to stay closed
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[Heydinger] We need more time if we're going to do this. I don't think it's too horrible thing if these four
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close. I don't know. I could I ask Phil Young, but I don't know how far Hazard is from the nearest
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hospital, but I can tell you that there are many people in the United States much further away from medical care.
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There. The United Mine Workers, you notice, isn't closing all of
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these hospitals. They are closing four. And they've scared everyone in. And, I suddenly realized
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last night that we're all running scared because they said they're going to close them. And, they're
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scaring us into quick and possibly poor decisions, perhaps to get rid of their
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problems. And this again is the reason I didn't want John Newdorp here, for example, who I so highly
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admire, because I would not want anything taken personally. So
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perhaps maybe we could say this. Perhaps maybe we could say that we don't have the
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resources to stop these four hospitals from closing. We are interested in them. We would like to take over
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these hospitals. Would either you State of Kentucky or you the United Mine Workers, or you
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the United States government, who have just as much responsibility, in fact a lot more than we do
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basically. You keep the four open if you think they have to be kept open. In the
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meantime, give us a minimum of one year. Frankly I'm scared
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to say that. I'd like to have two, but all right I'll say one or whatever. Maybe I can get Bob [Barrie, Bob] to agree to. And, Bob has not
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heard this. We talked this morning, but I said I was going to let it fall to him right here. You know when I have enough
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time you know to pick up and get at me too much. But perhaps give us
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at least a year, and then let us continue in this. Now, even if we
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demanded a year or two, we would have to have a crash program. We'd have to get all of
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our public relations people, every department that I can think of, working overtime to
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hunt out the resources that Bob [Barrie] and Ken [Neigh] know that we have in our churches to
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do this job.
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This organization of which I spoke.
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[Heydinger] Sure we would lose some of the personnel down there, but perhaps not too many. And,
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the idea of which I spoke, and I respectfully request that you do
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not mention this to anyone because you don't know, I don't know, the
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rather amazing politics that I see in religion. And, you don't know the
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less amazing by the way politics that we have in medicine.
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You know policy helped me in this. As I said, this man from George Washington said
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I think that it's possible to build a medical school down there.
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Now this is another fantastic idea, but stop and think. We need fifteen new medical schools in
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the next ten years. This has been definitely agreed to.
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I don't know for sure whether there is a
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per capita number per student required and so forth that it can
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be done, but this is almost ideal. I'd like to take these hospitals. I'd like to
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see it arranged that a medical school be put down there. You know the thing that just passed Congress the other day seems
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extremely fortuitous. Here's the money to do it. You're bringing in extra people, tremendous
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resources and so forth into an area. I think, and Paul felt that you could
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at least put a third and fourth year medical school down there. And, these are definitely in need in this country.
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Look at the problems you would solve immediately. There would be bringing in
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specialized people and hence creating a lot of jobs. Number two you would be giving a
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medical school for which the government has put aside I don't know how many hundred forty two million or something.
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Thirdly there would be no problem with such things as you can't have your office
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in the hospital because all university hospitals have their offices there. This is accepted in
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teaching. Fourthly if you want to hold a staff, just tell them they're going to become a
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part perhaps of a medical faculty. And this will hold them quicker than anything we can do.
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Again I don't think this ought to be repeated, but to me this seems to be the best problem.
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I'm still sure we cannot take these over in the time allotted to us. [Heydinger concludes]
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I think. I think Doctor
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Stewart [Stewart, Archibald K.] is connected with budget. It might be well to have him speak
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next. I don't
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care about the priorities. I just want to be heard.
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Well, do you think it would be better
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before? Whatever works.
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Which do you prefer?
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Mr Chairman there are just a few things I would like to say
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And I think maybe it's better for you to speak next.
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The first is that in this whole process from the time this came to
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our attention until today, there can be absolutely no
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question as to the thoroughness with which the department, the
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division has gone into this. Its integrity and the authority
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by which it has acted. And, by the department, we mean of
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course, mainly Bob Barrie. At every crucial step,
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he has of course come for
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consultation and received
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assurances or permission as the
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case may be. I don't know of a more thorough job of
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investigation anywhere any place than Mr
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Barrie has given it and I can say the same thing for Mr. for Dr Heydinger.
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This has been pursued with the greatest of thorough, the greatest of thoroughness
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and with permission and authority. As each step
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has been taken. The fee for the consultant
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is to be paid by the Board. Therefore the consultant is
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not under obligation in any sense to the United Mine Workers or to the
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state of Kentucky. This is, I think,
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an objective appraisal, and the
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consultant is under obligation to no one. His
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fee is paid by the Board. The budget of course is a very
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serious consideration. There's a figure of seventy five thousand mentioned.
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I have talked at length with Bob [Bob Barrie] on this
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particular item. There are probably items in his present but
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budget which will have to go. Work may have to be
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sacrificed. This is a matter of priority
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of the relative importance. This is the thing we're attempting to do across the
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church in evaluation. And, this to him and to the
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division, with the possible exception of Dr Heydinger, is a
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top priority. And so that while
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there will be, of course, some additional budget money needed, there
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is a thorough examination of the present budget of the division and
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the use of some of that money in this proposed seventy five
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thousand dollars that is mentioned. The
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budget of course is always a serious consideration.
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Nobody knows that better than I do.
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Personally, I am in favor of this. I've
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been in it from the beginning. We thought the doors would
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close so the decision would not have to be made. That the contribution this
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Board would make would be to get this thing on the road, perhaps in the hands of
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somebody else, to keep these hospitals open.
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The task is difficult.
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Extremely difficult. All these things the doctor [Heydinger, David K.] has mentioned
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are valid, I think. And yet I think that it can
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be done. I personally have great confidence in our, in Mr Barrie
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and in his committee. And, I think this Board can
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be the channel through which this operation can
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be kept open.
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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And now, Mr. Rogers. [Rogers, Lon B.] is he here?
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Oh
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[Rogers] Mr President, members of the Board, my friends.
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A good many of you have asked me how I felt about this matter.
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I live in Pikeville Kentucky. Is the map I'm still on
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the board there?
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They took it down, I guess.
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This has been a difficult matter for me too, Dr Heydinger.
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That's on. Tony
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My people and I come from Kentucky
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stock from way back. My great great grandfather
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left Virginia.
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Floated down the Ohio River to the Falls of the Ohio.
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now, Louisville.
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He was an itinerant Baptist preacher.
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He staked out in the year seventeen seventy five a claim of a thousand acres of land
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in Nelson County Kentucky,
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near Bardstown. He
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was the first one of the first justices of the peace in
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Nelson County Kentucky. I've seen the records. He
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preached and organized churches there. From
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there my great grandfather went to Ohio County, Kentucky. That's down in western
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Kentucky. He
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had a poor farm, and he did the best he could.
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He was the sixth child in his
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family. My grandfather was the tenth child in a
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large family. He died when my father was
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four and a half years old.
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A poor farm, thin land, and all he could do was raise a little tobacco.
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My father [Roger, Alphonso "Fon" ]
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had nothing to do. He educated himself such as he could.
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He became a teacher.
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That was about all there was to do in those days. Then he
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became county school superintendent, to which he was elected. He served for four years as
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Superintendent of Schools in Ohio County, Kentucky, of which Hartford is a county seat.
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Then he ran for county judge. He was defeated.
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He then had a wife and two children. And, he had to
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find a way to make a living. So he got into the he
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decided well.
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He'd organize a bank and needed banks so he organized a bank. Greensburg Kentucky. He
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had to leave Ohio County. So he organized a bank in Greensburg
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Kentucky. Got it going pretty good, they came in one day and said Mr Rogers
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so we'll let you sell your stock.
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They only had ten shares of stock the bare minimum he got that for organizing the bank.
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So he went to Cincinnati and discussed with a good friend of his that he had come to know in that
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brief time, who was with the Fifth-Third Union Trust Company.
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He said, Mr Rogers, I believe is a good place and opportunity for a new bank in
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Pikeville Kentucky.
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So I don't guess you ever heard of it? It's just a little mountain town up in the head of the Big
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Sandy River. One hundred ten miles due south of
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Ashland-Huntington area. Said, I believe there's an opportunity
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there for a bank. So in nineteen three, my father went
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there, first rode horseback over the mountains. Having organized three other
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State banks in Hindman, Kentucky, by Hazard
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and Manchester.
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The one at Hindman still operates. He still had nothing. Went to Pikeville,
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with, I think with five hundred dollars.
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Then in nineteen seven, after he had organized this bank, there was a depression. The year nineteen five the C.
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and O. Railroad built a branch line into Pikeville, Pike County. Thus,
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opened the coal field which John L. Lewis tried to keep from being open.
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The. Dad knew nothing about coal business. Neither did his brothers, but in after
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inflammatory rheumatism, and after he died in nineteen ten,
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after after nineteen ten, after he had inflammatory rheumatism, he brought into two brothers. So they organized a
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little company, Rogers Brothers Coal Company. And they operated a
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little mine there for a time until nineteen sixteen on borrowed money
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cause they didn't have any.
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My father was a man who
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believed in serving his community.
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After his health failed we moved to Lexington. He was
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one of the first promoters and chief lobbyist on behalf of
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the first bill to create the Kentucky cripple children's Commission
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in nineteen twenty four in the state of Kentucky. He had some friends he had made through the years
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in political circles, and he worked through them.
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In nineteen twenty one, Dad felt his health was failing, so he moved
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my family to Lexington.
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Now in the Bluegrass. My mother still lives there.
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She is eighty seven.
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There I became a member of the First Baptist Church. I had been a member of
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the First Baptist Church in Pikeville, which my father and mother were charter members of and helped organize.
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They had a Baptist preacher down there who did not believe that such a
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[Rogers continutes speaking] thing as card playing in the works. Didn't think anybody ought to dance, and nobody else ought to.
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This fellow had been a professor of Bible and Greek at
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Georgetown College, Kentucky, a Baptist institution. So
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you wouldn't believe this, but it happened. And, you can verify it, but he literally
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withdrew the right hand of fellowship from fifteen hundred people over a period of
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two or three years. The right hand of fellowship was withdrawn from us.
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We went to another Baptist church. I was never very happy after that.
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I just began attending the Second
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Presbyterian church in Lexington. Dr Jesse Herrmann, who was for
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many years of our great Presbyterian on the General Council of our church.
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Phi Beta Kappa. Did some wonderful
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preaching there, a great church. So, when I went back to
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Pikeville to make my home after I married
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because I had interests there. I'm a lawyer by profession, but I do not practice
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generally. I am an estate trustee. I try to
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manage the affairs for my family. I have three sisters, my mother. I'm the only boy.
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My father felt that it was better that I be
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trained, if it be my will to be a lawyer and manage his estate, look after his
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family and be a useful citizen than anything else I could do, This I have tried to be.
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I did not seek membership on this Board. I
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Bob Skinner has an assistant
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in his Church, Lane Rankin, who was my
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Pastor, under whom I became a ruling elder
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I did not think I was worthy then. I did not think I was worthy of
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membership on this Board. Some of the greatest minds in the Presbyterian church, some of the finest people
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I know in this land, are members of this Board. And, I appreciate very highly the very high honor
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that my presbytery bestowed on me in nominating me for this board.
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I did not come to the matter at hand. I did not. When I first heard
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of this Miners Hospital thing, I said this thing is crazy. It can't be.
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When did they hear of it? I heard of them in January seventh. Meryl Ruoss was down in the Synod of Kentucky
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conducting a church planning session seminar, the first one we ever
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had in the Synod of Kentucky.
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When I heard of this thing, he just dropped it in the two day session we had there,
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. I said, "Well, the Synod of Kentucky hasn't been consulted about this."
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"Well," he said, "We wrote Gordon Corbett." Gordon's here, aren't you, Gordon?
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Yeah, here you are. And well I said
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I'm a member of the Presbyterian National Missions Committee. I'm a member of the Synod's National Missions Committee.
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And I want to be doggone sure that the channels of the church are not being bypassed.
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This is not going to be
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something dictated from New York. The wise men may all be in the east, but now
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we want to see the cards. And so.
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That was the first briefing.
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This is a difficult decision for me. The man who made this proposal to the who who
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caused this challenge to come to this board to this church,
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S. McMaster Kerr, [Pastor, Harlan Presbyterian Church] is a man who'd been kicked out of several pulpits over the country.
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He was installed in by the Presbytery of Ebenezer
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of your church
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over the unanimous protest and objection of every member of the Ministerial
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Relations Committee. My pastor was chairman of it, one of my best friends, a
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ruling elder, a past President of the State Chamber of Commerce of Kentucky, was on it.
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This was a situation. Yet this is the man. I didn't bring this to your attention. I didn't seek it.
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I didn't think it was possible. And it may not be. Only God
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knows whether all things be possible or not. If your god is too small to
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believe that he can do these things. I don't think you're very much of a Christian. I don't think I am.
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Now.
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I said first place. And I told Arch [Stewart, Archibald K.] as soon as I heard about this thing, I say, Well Arch, I was up here for
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education meeting January eighteenth. I said I want to talk to you and Bob Barrie when I come up,
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so they said well here's the situation. Here is the
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deadline. The union has set it. We didn't set it, my friends.
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We didn't ask the Union to come in here and build these hospitals. They were not
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built with union funds. Where did that money come from? It came from the coal operators.
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They extorted first five cents a ton, then forty cents a ton
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from the coal operators under threat that they would dynamite their properties. And, believe me, my friends that's
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what they or their minions do. Now they don't claim any responsibility for these acts,
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but they have burned temples, destroyed homes. Their people
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[Rogers continues speaking].
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And, it's been a state of anarchy since last September down there, and it's
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it's a serious problem. One of the trustees of Pikeville College is one of the
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finest leaders in all eastern Kentucky. B. F. Reed. He was
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formerly a Lutheran in Pennsylvania. He and his brothers came down there and opened up a bunch of
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small coal mines. He has had a contract with the United Mine Workers of America ever since
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he since they organized eastern Kentucky. They dynamited his home
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twice, my friends, twice. They disclaim any
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responsibility. Oh, no. They're not that. The union got nothing to do that. You know good and well
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they'd respond in damages in the terms of hundreds of thousands of dollars of this thing prevailed.
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We did not ask for these hospitals. They came in there and built them.
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But you know it's.
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It's kind of ironical. One of the.
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One of the elders in my church, our church,
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Dr Warren Proudfoot, is the son of a West Virginia coal miner.
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He worked his way through college in some way through Harvard Medical School.
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He did some work out among the Indians out in the southwest.
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And, he was recruited for the Miners Hospital staff in Pikeville.
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I didn't know him them. Till he came there, till he came to our church.
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Warren Proudfoot is one of the finest Christian doctors you'll find anywhere
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Now. My friends, there's a Methodist Hospital there, of which I expressed
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some concern yesterday. But if you happen to be driving along the highways of Big Sandy
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Valley, and you have an accident after five o'clock at night,
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and unless you know a good doctor, and you can reach him, you
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won't get medical service, Dr Heydinger, at the Pikeville Methodist
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Hospital. The state patrol of Kentucky is under orders to
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take the people, who are involved in automobile accidents, who have no known doctor,
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they're under instructions to take them to the Miners Hospital, because there is always a doctor on
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call there.
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And Dr Warren Proudfoot is one of the finest surgeons in eastern Kentucky.
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Now isn't that ironical. Talk about the Hippocratic Oath. My brother in law now
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deceased was a doctor. He worked for the cripple children's commission for
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twenty odd years. He took his oath seriously. He would go
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day or night. And, he made a success of the medical profession in every way,
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both from a standpoint of service and from the standpoint of money.
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I say we've got to do some things in faith. Now I say, I though this. I thought the doors were all
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closed. I thought it was crazy. I said if the United Mine Workers with all
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of the coal operators money. Not their money. They extracted
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that from us and put it in a trust fund. They built these hospitals. We didn't ask
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for them. Of course there were no hospitals there, but they built them. And
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now they are turning their back on eastern Kentucky. They're turning their
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backs upon these coal miners that dug out the coal
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and made possible this trust fund. Here's an editorial from the
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Louisville Courier Journal, our largest paper, a Democratic paper, mind you, and I'm a Republican.
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November the twenty ninth the U. M.W. deserts its members and the
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industry. I've got a lot of them. I've sent a lot of these folks
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Now.
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If they you know if the United Mine Workers can't afford them, the state of Kentucky can't afford them,
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how in the world can the Presbyterian Church afford them? I was
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opposed to this plan until I came here to do this to this meeting.
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I didn't think it was possible.
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I didn't think John F. Kennedy, who has not done anything except throw more coal miners out of
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business in West Virginia by allowing more residual oil to come into the United States
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from foreign countries. I didn't think John F. Kennedy and I didn't vote for him. I didn't
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think he would do anything for West Virginia or eastern Kentucky.
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Frankly sincerely I believe this. But he gave
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orders, and they came down the line with a commitment to provide the capital funds for these
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hospitals. No Presbyterian money. You are not asked to put up a dollar of your capital money
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for this area. Then Dr
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Rosenfeld [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] said at Lexington at the consultation. He figured to be a four
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hundred thousand dollar deficit, that was based on a seven percent rate of a bad
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debts.
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Well, they persuaded him that Dr Willard [Willard, William R. ], the dean of the University of Kentucky Medical School. And, by the way,
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Dr Heydinger, let's be factual. That medical school did not cost one hundred forty two million
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dollars. It cost forty two million dollars, twenty four million dollars.
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[Rogers continues] The state of Kentucky is not a rich state. It's a comparatively poor state.
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But I think you surely it must have been impressed with
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with our governor [Combs, Bert T. ] yesterday. I didn't ask him to come here. Didn't even know he was coming till I got here.
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I never dreamed he would come here because he tried to work this out on his own, and he failed.
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Happy Chandler, who wants to be governor again, who has been
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running for governor for four years, who who has been
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Doing everything you could do to wipe east Kentucky off the map. After the fifty seven flood, he said move on
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out east Kentucky.
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Bert Combs, a mountain man has built or is building the most modern highway system
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that Kentucky has ever had. We have voted one hundred and ninety million dollars for
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highways' bonds. A first mortgage on our homes in Kentucky to build
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highways to match federal money. We have. He has built is
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building through bonds financed through New York financiers a
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East Kentucky turnpike to run from eventually from
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Saliersville to Princeton Kentucky with freeways to Pikeville. So by this time next year,
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my friends, you can travel on a modern highway from Prestonsburg Kentucky to Kentucky
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Lake way down in western Kentucky some four hundred odd miles. He
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has been our governor. I voted for him. I'm a Republican. I never voted
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for a Democratic governor before in my life. I voted for him because of his program.
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And, the Kentucky State Chamber of Commerce, of which I am a regional vice president and have been
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for three years and a director. The Kentucky Chamber of Commerce
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has supported him in most of his legislation. We have not supported him in some things
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naturally. We think he is a little bit.
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We think he's a little biased toward labor, you know. And, we've had this
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anarchy. And he hasn't done exactly what we thought he should have
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done about that.
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But, my friends, there is an old poem by Judge Mulligan in Kentucky, who says politics is the damnedest in Kentucky
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and it is. I guess it is.
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But this governor [Combs, Bert T.] appointed me, after he was elected, to a membership on the Breaks Interstate
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Park Commission. I don't draw a dime. I don't. I don't draw a dime
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on mileage. I gave over fifty percent of my time for the last two years to develop
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where this Breaks InterstatePark. Kentucky and Virginia working cooperatively.
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Something we've dreamed of for a long time. I think there's a future for eastern
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Kentucky. Of course, we've lost a lot of people. And there's a lot to be done.
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And the Ford Foundation survey said that the Southern Appalachian area,
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eight states, one hundred ninety counties, is the most depressed area in the United
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States. I'm not proud of this. I'm sorry for it. But I live there and I want to do something about it.
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If it is the most depressed area in the United States, and this Board
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has adopted it as a major policy of concern.
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What.