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Bill Lytle interviewed by Charles Quirk, 1981, side 2.
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- speakerYour experience being chair of GAMC from
- speaker1979 to now and then you took upon
- speakeryourself the
- speakerChair of the Review Committee on Racial Justice and Racial Ethnic Ministries, which had been mandated. The Committe had been
- speakermandated by the 1979 General Assembly. It seems that you had more than enough to do.
- speakerQ Why did you decide to accept that responsibility?
- speakerI had already agreed to serve on the Communications Taskforce
- speakerfor the church. That is an area of, and still is a, concern
- speakerthat I for the life of the church. To somehow build a better network and a system of linkage
- speakerwithin the church. I was already then on that task force, had a place there, when
- speakerI was approached by both Dan
- speakerLittle and there were one or two elected
- speakermembers apparently working with him on putting together the review group, the
- speakerCommittee. And they came
- speakerto me saying that they really felt that that
- speakerwas a place where my leadership was needed.
- speakerI frankly believed then, and I believe now, and this is not a putdown of myself,
- speakerI think I was.
- speakerThis. I'm sure that I was second, third, or fourth down the list. No problem.
- speakerIt's just that I do believe that they had other people in mind for that at the
- speakertime, whom they were just not able to get, for whatever reason. I don't even
- speakerremember who those people were, but I remember that there were some names. In other words, this was something it wasn't just conjured up
- speakerin my mind. It was quite open with me as we discussed it, that here were some people who
- speakercould very well have done this. They're not able to. The committee was seen as
- speakerone that needed visibility. It was a committee
- speakerthat needed somehow to have, from the beginning, the sense that this is something which is
- speakerthat the G.A.M.C. was serious. And, the like. And, at
- speakerthe time, it appeared that I was the only person
- speakerthat they could see within the G.A.M.C., that could give it that kind of
- speakervisibility. So, they said, if you'd be willing to do that, we'll take you off the Communications Task Force. And, they saw the
- speakertime involvement between
- speakerthe two, fairly comparable as far as how many meetings I'd have to attend and the like.
- speakerSo within the sense of the
- speakerlimitations of the time that I had, which was one of the things I'd struggled with over these two years with
- speakermy congregation, since I'm the only staff person there. But that. So that has been a consideration there.
- speakerIt was in that light really that the politics and the
- speakerdynamics of my taking the chairpersonship.
- speakerAs you look back upon the work of that review committee.
- speakerHow would you assess its work as you sort of s
- speakertep back and think you were involved in something that just ended really in March of this year?
- speakerLarge numbers of meetings. Volumes of materials. How do you
- speakernow see the work of that committee?
- speakerI guess given the limitations of what we had available to us from meeting
- speakertimes and the like, we did a fairly good job
- speakerof
- speakerputting together both review and directional material. I guess.
- speakerIt was too big a task to
- speakerundertake.
- speakerYou cannot begin to touch base. I look back and realize that from the start
- speakerwe probably did not, in our review, do an adequate enough job of dealing
- speakerwith people who were into this programmatically
- speakerwith the U.P. Church. I think we left out the Program Agency
- speakerfar too much, as we began this work.
- speakerWe early on decided that we weren't going to spend a lot of time in the review, that we didn't.
- speakerWe felt, although that was a part of it, we didn't want to just embed
- speakerourselves in the past 20 years,
- speakerwhich could have ended up being a purely, "Why haven't we been doing better than we did?"
- speakerAnd, we saw that as a. As a no win situation
- speakerat all. We didn't need any more whipping. But, what we
- speakerneeded to do is to look realistically at where we've been. Some of the
- speakershortcomings in that past and learn from that as to
- speakerhow can we now move into the 80s in a way it's going to be
- speakermore viable and more helpful than what we have been. So.
- speakerI would say I'm I'm. I have a satisfied feeling with the way the committee worked.
- speakerI just feel. That. It's quite realistic to say we just were not able to
- speakercover the ground.
- speakerAs you think. You mentioned the learnings. What would you say would be the real major
- speakerthings for you that came out of that entire review process? Primarily, looking forward
- speakeras you said. What are those learnings?
- speakerFrom a personal point of view I suppose the thing that I learned most was the gifts of p
- speakereople. That. That was the rich experience from a personal point of view.
- speakerTo get to know people, whom I had not known, that was an
- speakerunknown group for me, for the most part. That took some
- speakerbuilding to do. It took some hurting along the way. We opened up
- speakerwith each other, felt our way and began to get to where we could trust each other.
- speakerBut the process of learning the gifts, that that's one of the words that comes through the report, which
- speakeris a very meaningful word to me. That the church
- speakerneeds itself to learn the gifts of the racial ethnic group. groups
- speakerand individuals within it. And what those gifts can do
- speakerto enrich the worship life,
- speakerReally getting to know each other. Part of our Christian experience.
- speakerRather than simply again just one more member on the roll. And, I have to
- speakerconsciously and intentionally work at that, as a part of a
- speakercongregation in San Antonio. I feel that there's so much more that we could
- speakerbe doing.That's. That is one of the things that I'm hoping will happen that it can affect
- speakercongregational life that is at the grassroots. If, the real sense
- speakerof what is this report is saying comes through.
- speakerFrom the church point of view, I would say the. We're going to
- speakersee the strength of the report if, in fact, the caucuses begin
- speakerto come into their own in ways that they are not now recognized. If, in fact,
- speakerthere can be that kind of gift-sharing out of the
- speakercaucuses in the life of the church, not just advocacy groups as we sometimes see them being.
- speakerBut, as groups that have contributions
- speakersimply of their own, gifts of ethnicity, of the way they look at
- speakerthings, of their biblical understanding. Again. The
- speakerawareness that the stories of the Scripture speak to different groups in different
- speakerways was an eyeopener. And,
- speakerthe way that came across in worship experiences within the committee was very real. That can happen across
- speakerthe church and what a rich experience that could be for the denomination if that were to happen.
- speakerCertainly. I'm aware of the fact that we have been impotent, p
- speakererhaps is one way to put it. We have been impotent for the most part in really dealing as
- speakera church with racial justice concerns in the community
- speakerand the like. And hopefully,
- speakerthe way in which this has been made visible across the church, plus the way in which
- speakerthe Council on Church and Race now has been structured, so
- speakeras to be both empowered and free and given I think a fresh mandate as
- speakerto what the church now intends of this body. And, I say all of this as if it's already happened.
- speakerAnd, it hasn't yet. But, I'm assuming it will. If it does
- speakerhappen, I see that as a very hopeful sign for where we
- speakercan be in years to come.
- speakerInasmuch as the Review Committee as you described it was primarily forward looking at, rather
- speakerthan retrospective, you've sort of indicated. Well,
- speakeryou have indicated, a strong hopefulness, positive feeling toward the 1980's. Do you think that perhaps
- speakerthe church is able now, could be able to
- speakeragain deal with
- speakerracial justice things with revitalization? I would hope so.
- speakerThat's something I guess we'll have to test and see the. Of course, the Presbyterian
- speakerPanel would give you some pause. The Presbyterian Panel would
- speakermake you think that the majority of folks are saying we've
- speakerdone it; we've talked about that enough; and there are bigger problems that
- speakerwe ought to face now. We've dealt with it. We've got some members in our congregation now. We are
- speakerintegrated. What more do you want? And that is.
- speakerI say that's where the Presbyterian Panel. But I'm one who believes that people really
- speakerdo much better when they respond to reality than when they're simply talking about things or
- speakerask questions about things. I think if, in fact, we were to start to do
- speakersome things intentionally as a congregation, I would
- speakerhope that we will find that we have.
- speakerWe're way ahead of where we were
- speakerin an attitudinal way. What we need is something around which to have
- speakerthose attitudes now focus. And, I don't think we as a church have that. I'm h
- speakeroping that as indeed the Council, which really is going to be the one
- speakerto whom we are going to look for leadership in this direction. As the Council moves
- speakerin this and lifts up before the church concerns, ways in
- speakerwhich either in our worship experience, our worship life, or other things that there
- speakercan be change. There can be a sharing of gifts, and there can be a
- speakerresponse to community problems. I look hopefully
- speakerfor a
- speakerkeener response than we had before. One final area I would like to touch upon.
- speakerWhat do you see as the impact of the reunion discussions with the
- speakerPresbyterian Church in the United States having on the racial justice thrust?
- speakerWell. Probably haven't been into that as much as I need to have
- speakerbeen on it. So I speak from one whose been in the outside.
- speakerObviously. Problems regarding the reunion that are going to be faced,
- speakerparticularly in areas like the southeast. And, if I were
- speakerwithin the black constituency in the south, I'd have real questions about whether it is in my
- speakerbest interests or not. I think there needs. There is going to have to be a
- speakerreal monitoring and watchdog of t
- speakerhat whole area, if indeed reunion comes, and I hope it does.
- speakerI have a feeling that there is a strong support within
- speakerthe P.C.U.S. for the kinds of
- speakerthings which were surfaced and expressed in
- speakerour report. I have a feeling that the leadership of the P.C.U.S. would
- speakerlargely share that same kind of concern.
- speakerAnd, I think, given that kind of mutual working together that reunion could indeed not bethe
- speakerproblem that. I think, many
- speakerof us see it as potentially. I would
- speakerhope that there would be something of a broadening of this program from the P.C.U.S., who
- speakerhas been involved in their interracial, racial ethnic committee work.
- speakerI know Shares this would say a hundred
- speakerpercent what has been said by others in this, in the Review itself.
- speakerSo. I think he would probably represent a good part of the leadership within that constituency.
- speakerIs there anything that you would like to add or expand upon that we have touched?
- speakerNo. I don't believe so, Chuck. Like I said, to the few that
- speakerI had a chance to really talk to personally out of the Review Committee. But.
- speakerI'll look back upon these last two years. Remember that experience is probably the rewarding
- speakerpart of what I've been about. Not just a matter of convening meetings and going through that,
- speakerbut actually the kind of people, touching and
- speakergetting to know one another, and the struggle that goes in that. And,
- speakerI've been deeply impressed with the persons within C.O.C.A.R. and
- speakerwithin the caucuses that were a part of it. That. That
- speakerwas great for me. I will always cherish that and look forward to seeing now
- speakerwhat's, what's going to be happening. And, ways in which I, as a
- speakerpastor, out in the church can be a part of the new
- speakerday.
- speakerBill, I appreciate your willingness to be interviewed. And, I think your comments will be useful not only for
- speakermy limited project, but also for scholars in the future to make use of these tapes at the Presbyterian H
- speakeristorical Society. Thank you.
