Board of National Missions miners hospitals discussions, April 1963, tape 3.

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[Kenneth Glenn Neigh] We don't have, I think,
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the original of this action. But
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here are the actions as they came to us from the
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executive secretary of the Kentucky Medical Association.
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Resolved that the Kentucky State Medical Association wishes to commend the
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Presbyterian Church for the humanitarian effort to keep these talks with an
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operation. Resolved further that we feel that the members
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of the Kentucky Medical Association will provide medical care to the patients in those
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hospitals. Then there are three provisions.
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Most of the three are have
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been outlined or have been discussed
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by Dr Rosenfeld [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] in his,
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in his statement and which,
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I think, open the door almost
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completely for the complete cooperation and understanding
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of the State Medical Association, subject to certain
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negotiations about principle. Following and then further,
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that the Board of Trustees of the Kentucky Medical Society
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Jim [Gailey, James R.], this is like the Board of Christian Education. I can never understand what the initial mean.
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K. S. M. A., which is the medical association,
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stands ready to cooperate in the future with the concerned parties
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in implementing this program in keeping with these policies.
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This would seem to say that the Kentucky
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Medical Association. Well, it does say we are congratulated
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on the humanitarian effort to keep the thing in operation. [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] Dr. Neigh,
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that has been confirmed, we just haven't been able to keep in communication fast enough but I
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do have a signed letter from the chairman of the hospital committee and it's exactly as you
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read it. [Neigh, Kenneth Glenn speaking] I'll be. The one, the
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one further thing. And, I think it, Bob [Barrie, Bob], would
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be good if we introduced the
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gentlemen from the Welfare Fund, who are in the back. [Barrie, Bob] It would be a
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pleasure. Before I doing that, may I say that from the very first
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day that I met one of the gentlemen I'm going to introduce to you. This has been
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our principal contact with the United Mine Workers Welfare and Retirement Fund and the Miners
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Memorial Hospital Association. And, I can say to you in all candor. And, I do it with considerable
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feeling, that the kind of cooperation and assistance which this gentleman has given to
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us has been a huge factor in our being able to
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report to you even as much progress as we have been able to this afternoon. I'm going to
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call on Dr. Newdorp [Newdorp, John] to introduce his colleague, but I want the
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pleasure of introducing to you the Director of the Miners Memorial Hospital Association, Dr John
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Newdorp.
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[applause] with me is of the United
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Mine Workers of America Welfare and Retirement Fund, Mr. Thomas Bryant.
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[Barrie, Bob] Dr. Neigh, I
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have just been reminded by my good friend Corbett [Gordon Corbett] that it is extremely important
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at this stage of our discussion of this problem, as it has been from the very first
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visit which Dr Heydinger [Heydinger, David K.] and I made to Harlan, that there be no publicity about
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what we are saying here this afternoon except the very limited amount which
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goes through the very careful hands of Mildred Herman. This this is important.
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[Kenneth Neigh] Well, one thing about Presbyterians, they only talk about a
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little thing. May I
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continue. What I have continuing upon the
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introduciton of these gentlemen. The question, I'm sure, is in your
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minds, concerning the presence of the availability
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of the hospitals by
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the Welfare Fund.
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There's a good deal of question and
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heat in Kentucky over this question. However it is
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something that ought to be completely understandable to the Board of National Missions.
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As you know, they're still hanging us in effigy in Haines, Alaska, for
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closing Haines House. And, it was it was closed because that
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particular function that the Board was seeking to fulfill, at that time, seemed to be,
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be seemed finished
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as a church organization. And, this has been the thing, the
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philosophy of the Board of National Missions from the beginning, to supply
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services when they were not being supplied by the community, but then
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withdrawal when they were when they were supplied by the community. Now,
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I think, Mr Chairman, that
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this is an awful lot of material to assimilate.
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Dr. Neigh, I think there are two other guests that I would like the privilege
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of introducing. They are members of the governor's [Bert T. Combs] staff. Mr John Westman is his
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special assistant, who has given splendid cooperation from very early days. It
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was our privilege to meet him at that first conference in Harlan and Mr Felix
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Joyner [Joyner, L. Felix] . Mr Joyner, I know you are Commissioner of
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Commissioner of Health, Education and Welfare in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Mr. Joyner.
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It
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looks like an old vaudevile act, doesn't it?
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The presentation is before you. I think that I
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may remind you again, that the action we're to take
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one way or another is on the white sheet that the balance that
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Dr Rosenfeld's [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] report is available for you to study overnight.
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The action is, will be will be
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docketed for tomorrow morning at this
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time and as long as you wish to ask questions
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of the people, who have been kind enough to come or any of the rest of us.
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The docket is yours. Recognizing full well that we
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have a very important report from the Division of Education, but I think
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it is this can be docketed at any
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time or when the Board feels that it will move to that.
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be.
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Are there any questions on this? We'll will not take action on this until tomorrow morning. But, are there any
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questions on it before we go one to special report of
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the Division on Education? Mr. Jaezz? then Dr. McConnell [McConnell, H. H.] , in respect whose first?
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"Are any other hospitals in this area? Do you know if the federal government proposes building a
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hospitals in this area?" [Kenneth Neigh] There are other hospitals in this area.
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For detail on that I would refer to Dr Rosenfeld as to whether or not the federal
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government intends to build any additional ones. I can say that in our whole several
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weeks of investigating this, this has not come to our knowledge. [B. D. Rosenfeld] I would say No. To the best of my knowledge at the
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moment." I think we can say categorically the federal government will not and has no
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plan.
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[Bob Barrie] "Is it proposed that the money
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be given the money that will be available by the government be made to the
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church or will the money be paid in such a way that we can
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administer it? But, will it be government money paid to the
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church in order to handle it?" [Kenneth Neigh] This is the Church and Society question, Bob [Bob Barrie].
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As nearly as we can answer that question
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It falls within basically a philosophy that is already established by the General
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Assembly and the Board of Nation Missions in the use of Hill-Burton Funds.
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"These would be Hill-Burton funds?" They would not be Hill-Burton funds, would they, Bob?
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No sir. They would not. The principle is the same. As to which
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agency, what agency would actually receive the funds from the federal government. This is
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a matter in which no final determination has been made. I would say it is highly
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probable that it would be the new corporate body, the Appalachian Regional
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Hospital board or the new corporation by whatever name it is called.
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[Kenneth Neigh] You'll find a specific
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statement with reference to the corporate aspect of this thing, but
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I don't think that we ought to be in a position and
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I hope that it is. Again this is
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executive session within the family. We cannot allow
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ourselves to get into a position where the federal government would purchase the hospitals and then sell them
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to the church for a dollar. As a matter of fact
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one of the assistant secretaries, in a
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laughing aside, said that this is what we've been trying to do with parochial schools.
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Now the point is that at every point
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where we have been involved in these, we have made it
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perfectly clear that it A had to be done within
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the kind of legislation that the Presbyterian Church already
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ascribed too and probably, although
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this is your decision, which we didn't make, would
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not be directed to the Board of National Missions, but to a corporation.
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Involved in the corporate aspect of this thing is it is also
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the fact of the deficit, you see. The Board of National Missions could
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not reasonably be expected to be involved in a corporate
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situation where it would be liable for the deficit of these
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hospitals. It would be. It would be the corporation within
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these areas. Mr Chairman, we have many Presbyterian
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hospitals, like the one in New York, where we have only
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historical connection. Each of these is independent.
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The one in Frenchburg in this area, which is a mission hospital, I gather, under the Synod of Kentucky. Now
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is this a third and different pattern? It sounds to me as if it is. But
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does it resemble either of the other two. or where are we on this?
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The hospital at Frenchburg is a Board of National Missions owned and operated hospital. And,
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I cite that as the extreme
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end of a spectrum of direct responsibility for the Board of National Missions. This is one of
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our Board owned and operated properties, and our responsibility is direct. Our
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administrative lines very straight to Frenchburg. At the other end of the
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spectrum of direct responsibility might be some of the hospitals that you've mentioned. They are
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Presbyterian hospitals. The Presbyterian aspect of them is in the
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main historical and in name. And, there are varying
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degrees of relatedness to the Presbyterian church. The Presbyterian Medical
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Center in San Francisco, a more recent one, is an example of where the relationship is closer, where the
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presbytery has a direct responsibility for the nomination and
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election of the governing body. This is true in many hospitals. This
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corporation, which Dr Rosenfeld [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] has proposed we create, is
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somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, I would say. And, the details of it
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are something which our attorneys would have to work out in drafting the articles of
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incorporation and the bylaws. There are many questions which could be raised here.
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In my own judgment, a minimum requirement would be that this body, this Board of
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National Missions, have the power to nominate and elect the board of
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trustees or at least a fifty one percent of it. Even this is a matter of
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judgment, however.
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Mr. Chairman. Is this appropriate for us to address? No, not until tomorrow morning.
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I couldn't I couldn't help but wonder what the present admissions
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policies, racially, of hospitals in this area might be.
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I'm sure I can answer that. And I know Dr Newdorp [Newdorp, John] will be listening to see that I answer it correctly. I am
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certain that the admission policy is completely without regard
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to race religion or any other factor. See mission on the basis of need. Am I right,
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Dr Newdorp? And the same policy applies to the staffing of the hospital.
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I have a question. May I ask this question of Bob?
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[Neigh] Yes sir. [Board member] Can the "C" under two on this white sheet
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That the Board receive assurances from the said governments of the states of
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Kentucky, Virginia, and West Virginia and any of them
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satisfactory to the executive officers. Now, does this mean that one state
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can commit us? Or does this mean we do not go ahead until all three
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states commit us? [Barrie] No, sir. Commit themselves. First, a word
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or two about the use to which we think this resolution may be part
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if the board chooses to adopt it as it is or wit
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amendments. We hope that this can be the instrument of negotiation
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with the United Mine Workers Welfare and Retirement Fund trustees. Now as to the particular point you mention with
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regard to the fact that we are involved here with three states, not just the state of
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Kentucky. As a matter of fact, the immediacy of this problem
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relates only to the state of Kentucky. All four hospitals, which have been announced
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for closure, plus the fifth one which Dr Rosenfeld and his staff
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insists be acquired with the four remaining to be closed, if they are to be operated with efficiency,
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are within the state of Kentucky. It has been and it's
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it's an open secret as a matter of fact it's almost a public announcement that the
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remaining five hospitals in the chain are scheduled to close at some time in the future. We
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don't know when that will be. Perhaps Dr Newdorp, [Newdorp, John] if you care to speak to this. But when
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that happens, if it does, the present expectation is that it will, the
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same kind of assurances would have to be entered into. However the
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immediate action concerns only the Kentucky
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hospitals. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask what
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is the average population of these hospitals. And, if they are opened
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for the entire community law, what do you think will be the
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potential of the numbers of non indigents served? I would like to have
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Dr Rosenfeld answer that, if I may. [Rosenfeld, Eugene D.] That
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question requires a rather detailed answer. And, it is in the report in great
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detail, but just in general. These hospitals,
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four of the five that we surveyed, the smaller ones have been
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operating at between sixty and eighty percent. The large one, the Harlan General's, been operating
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higher than eighty five percent, about eighty seven percent as I recall. Most of the
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hospitals have been operating about seventy five percent and up of Fund
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beneficiaries. The remaining twenty five percent or so, being
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emergency cases, non Fund beneficiaries and the like. As a matter of
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policy, the hospitals have not accepted
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non Fund beneficiaries, except in emergencies beyond twenty five
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percent of their load, as I understand the policy. Although I think, in certain instances, it's simply been
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waived. In point of fact, the actual operation that
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we foresee. We think that these hospitals can operate
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efficiently, the four smaller ones, at between seventy and eighty percent
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occupancy and that Harlan General, Howard Memorial, can operate around eighty to eighty five
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percent at efficiency. Now beyond that they can all operate up to eighty five and
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even ninety percent, but if they do, it'll be largely for medically indigent people.
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Our projection of income is based upon,
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in each instance, our knowledge of the numbers of people in each classification. In other words,
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Blue Cross subscribers, Blue Cross groups, self pay on the
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basis of the experience of other hospitals in the community. The numbers of Miner
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beneficiaries, who will continue to have Fund benefits. Now, this number
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decreases each year, but we have theFund's own projections of how many there will
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be. And, they still represent and will continue to represent a major
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proportion of the total numbers of people who will be hospitalized. And then finally
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there's going to be a drive by the state Blue Cross Association to
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sign up the eligible employees in the area, employee
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groups that are not yet signed up. And, we have the numbers of these already signed
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and to be signed. And, of course, we've been very conservative about expecting one hundred percent
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enrollment. But, nonetheless we've gone through all of this in determining anticipated
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income. The balance, of course, will have to come as you've heard from the medically indigent.
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I guess I should address this to Dr. Barrie, but
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it seems to me that one of the great binds in this problem deals with the
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the necessity to act prior to the sending out of severance notices. As
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you say when the legislature cannot act until after the first of June,
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when there are so many unbuttoned up aspects
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of the whole problem. We have only a report of a conversation
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with one octogenarian, a member of the Welfare
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Board of the United Mine Workers [Roche, Josephine A.]. I'm wondering if there could not be negotiation
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with the group, now possession the rights
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here to do something about the delay of sending out severance?
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Mr. Chairman, if I may respond to that by saying that this resolution
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has been drawn for presentation to this Board on the assumption
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that it would be possible to negotiate a legal document by
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next Tuesday which would incorporate these contingencies.
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However this may be the point which we want to call on Dr. Newdorp [Newdorp, John] or Mr Ryan to make a
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comment, Mr Chairman. May we hear from
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Dr. Newdorp? Dr. Newdorp?
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[John Newdorp] I'll get up here where I can be heard. I don't speak very loudly otherwise. The
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question is primarily as to the possibility of a delay of this action.
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In the discussions that were held, I am
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certain that Miss Roche [Roche, Josephine A.] spoke for the other two trustees.
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This was not a the first time that
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requests for such delay had been made. They have been made
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repeatedly and by a number of different
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parties and the position of the Fund has consistently been
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that it cannot extend itself any further.
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This to some has seemed unreasonable
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but the position of the Fund is, as Dr Neigh [Neigh, Kenneth Glenn]
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has indicated, somewhat parallel to situations which you may be familiar with from your own
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experience. It is a trust fund and the trustees
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have their primary responsibility to the trust. These hospitals were built
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at a time when the need for them was desperate on the part of the
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beneficiaries of this trust fund. Over the course of the years, it's been
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twelve years since the hospitals were first programmed and the authority for their
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starting has occurred. A number of beneficiaries has
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dropped and dropped and dropped. And at the present time without
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any authorization and contrary to the trust regulations under which they operate,
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both morally and legally, they have no right to be
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incurring a deficit in the continued operation of these hospitals.
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They feel this responsibility very heavily. They
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feel, in effect, that they may have already gone much farther than they
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can. The tendency I think was to
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take this action prior to this. And, it was only
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because they realized that it would require a considerable amount of
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time that the decision was made nine months prior to the action.
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I think I can speak with complete
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accuracy on the point that questions addressed to the
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trustees of the United Mine Workers Welfare and Retirement Fund
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about the change in that date and schedule closings would be of
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no avail. I'm sorry to have to say that but I think it is completely factual.
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And, I wouldn't be honest with you unless I told you exactly that. [Kenneth Neigh] Mr
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Dr. Newdorp, before you leave, I think it is important that the
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issue involved here with reference
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to the statement that Bob [Barrie, Bob] made previously be clarified.
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That has to do with, as I understand it, and in our conversations
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to do with a statement or a some
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kind of an agreement entered into with the Fund
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by the, by next week,
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which at which point the amount of money involved is
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negotiable, but which would be made on certain
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other contingencies that are in incorporated within
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the document that we have before us. The thing I am saying is
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this. That in our projection I would not like to leave
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the idea current and unanswered
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that the Fund itself
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is unwilling to do something about
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a later date in terms of. We talked about I think
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it on October first date, something like that in terms of the staffing of the
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hospital and that, in our negotiations with both the
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federal and state governments. And, I haven't been in all of the
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negotiations with the Fund, the matter of this deficit has been an
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important point. So that the
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question of the turnover, Jack, in
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terms of the deficit has been a
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point of discussion with both the state and federal government.
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And, it is my understanding that the Fund itself,
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from our conversation, is prepared to help
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up until a specified date in terms of the turnover. Is that not
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right? [Newdorp, John] That is correct. Subject to the signing of a
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satisfactory agreement by April thirty. And, I won't try to go into
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the details of what that would be. The Fund is willing to continue
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the operation of these hospitals until the first of October,
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instead of a sensual closing
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deadline of July one. It does so knowing full well
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that it will have to spend funds beyond those which are spent on its
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own beneficiaries during that three month period. Our original discussions
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envision the possibility that the deficit above and beyond the care of its
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beneficiaries would be underwritten by someone else. But since the time we
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discussed this, the Fund has agreed to
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operate these hospitals for that additional three month period,
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pending a satisfactory agreement
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established by the first of May.
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May I just say here before we have any other questions.
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Time is going. I don't feel that
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we should neglect any questions that can really add to our knowledge
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here, but let's make sure that it is something that will add to
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our knowledge before we ask it, please, so that we may be able to
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terminate this and get on to our next report as soon as possible. Dr. McConnell [McConnell, H. H., Jr.]
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Dr, did you infer that you had had
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Did you infer that you had conferences and
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consultations with other groups about this
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taking over the hospitals and that
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they withdrew from this
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negotiation? Would you be at liberty at all to disclose any reasons why they did withdraw?
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[H. H. McConnell speaking] I think perhaps you inferred from my reference that
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there had been requests previously for a postponement of this deadline. This did not come
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from other groups. This came from people in the
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state of Kentucky ,who knew of the interest of the Presbyterian Church and the
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problems which the United Presbyterian Church faced in trying to come to grips
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with this problem at this time.
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Now admittedly there was one other group which I think was
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significantly interested in these hospitals.
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It was a group which has considerably different aspirations than the
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church. It is
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the kind of operation which just doesn't fit into their present pattern of operations and once
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having established that that was the case they lost their interest.
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I think I can describe it as a group which depends largely on a large
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industrial payroll with payroll deduction, prepayment, that type of
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operation. And, the economy
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of that area doesn't provide the kind of base in which they like to operate.
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Chairman, I've been asked by Dr. Rosenfeld to make a.
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I'd like to take a question from Dr. Newdorp. Just one point.
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Would you let Dr. Barrie make? Just one point of information, Mr Rogers [Rogers, Lon B.]. This will help matters for your question
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Just to make it very clear that this schedule of
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dates the purchase, the agreement to purchase by May first, the transfer of
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title by July one, assumption responsibility operation of October one pertains
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only to the five hospitals. We are not talking as of now about all
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ten. Now on. I understand this,
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in the context of the total program, I want to ask Dr. Newdorp
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if it isn't a fact that the Methodists at Pikeville have asked for a
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refusal of the right to buy the hospital at Pikeville?
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[Newdorp, John]. Yes that is the
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case. We have also in our offices at the present time an
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offer for the whole chain of ten by a
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broker who is interested in running them.
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Well I'm not sure that this is the case but the inference is that they would be run as hospitals for
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profit.
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There have been some expressions by other groups.
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Most of them have concerned themselves with coming up and expressing interest.
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Very few of them, only the two groups, United Presbyterian Church and this
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other one that I mentioned have gone into such matters as finding out what our budget
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is, what our operating problems are, and really come to grips with the problem. I'm sorry that I didn't
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construe expressions of interest, such as you mention in exactly the same light.
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And, most of these however had to do with individual
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hospitals, single hospitals, rather than with a group.
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Time seems to be being made very much of the essence. I. I'm
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just a little question here.
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We're setting up seventy five; we're guaranteeing seventy-five thousand dollars
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Per year. That we may be called upon
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to find,
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for a period of not to exceed five years.
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When we come spending that kind of money, much as
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I am
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in favor of hospitals, I want
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a little more time to think it over myself.
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[Kenneth Neigh] I'll give you until tomorrow morning, anyway, Ralph.
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That is very fine but I didn't make up my mind to marry my wife
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in
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that short a time.
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She probably was the one that was slow in deciding.
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I think
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Yes
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Don't mind me. May I ask if we
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the design to comply for the
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occasion that it would be possible [Mildred Herman]
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to protect us
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from the possibility that we might obtain a hospital in a state
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which would not give us corresponding funds. Does this
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take care of that? In other words it would be possible that Kentucky would give us assurance of
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making funds available for indigent patients, then we might find ourselves with a hospital in West Virginia.
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"C" takes care of that. [Rosenfeld] Precisely. [Barrie] There will be a different kind of problem that each of the other
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states. Wouldn't it be fair to say, Dr Rosenfeld, that quantitatively
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the deficit problem is much larger in Kentucky than I was going to be in Virginia
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and West Virginia, if for no other reason than the number of hospitals? [Rosenfeld] I am led to believe that's correct, Mr. Barry.
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And, the hospital in Beckley, I understand, is so
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filled now that their problem is going to be to find additional hospital beds. We won't know until
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we look at the detailed records. Do you want to take it?
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Mr. Neigh, we thought it would be appropriate to throw in at
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this stage an announcement or it is related a bit.
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We all know that the Ford Foundation put this money into the original study.
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The Centers have been following up the study and is appreciative of what we have done in our
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policy statement. On Tuesday I was with one of the members of the staff,
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who is considering now an application from the
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Council of Southern Mountains, incorporated, for a considerable sum of money,
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which, if granted by the
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Foundation, would enable the setting up of a regional planning process in the
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whole Appalachian area, which would certainly be very definitely related to the
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deeds we're talking about here today. Two men will be spending a week in Kentucky.
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in the area, from the Foundation to investigate whether
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they feel that this need is. The need is sufficient, the opportunities are appropriate for the
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Foundation to make another grant, which would be very definitely related
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to this. As I say, the Foundation was interested that we
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were involved in this kind of thing and will want to know what we have decided here today
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or tomorrow. And, our decisions will perhaps have a bearing on what
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they may feel they can do it as they look forward to the larger aspects of this region.
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And, they were interested also in the Board. In the Division of Home Missions of the
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National Council of Churches had taken similar action. It may be, Bob Barrie and I
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are thinking, that perhaps the Foundation would be interested helpin in this help aspect
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as well, since they have such similar interests in this whole field. Mr Chairman, if I might add
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right here, that had this time schedule been different and I hope it's apparent to all of you now that this
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was not of our choosing. Probably an approach to several
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foundations would have been one of the first things we would have done. As of this afternoon literally
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no foundation has even. This this word from Dr Comfort is the first
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knowledge that I have had over the approach to a foundation. I think these problems are going to be of extreme interest
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to many foundations.
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Now, unless we have
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some very specific
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[Neigh] I've got one specific thing I want to say. Because I think it's
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germane, as we think about this thing. One thing
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has not been mentioned. And that is the fact of the hostility that
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exists among the people in this mountain area. They're. They're shooting there.
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It is
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Some of the some of the stories that
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Bob has brought back from that area in terms
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of what was happening around Harlan and so forth, which
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really prompted a think, a letter to the minister there are somewhat
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appalling. I think that the Board of National Missions
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He
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Has a responsibility in terms of historic interest in
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medical missions. But there is another
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important factor.
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And that is the thing that we're all called upon to be a reconciling
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force within the community. And it seems to me, and this
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was called to my attention by Dr Rosenfeld,
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who by his name, you readily understand it is not a Presbyterian.
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But one of the most pointed evangelistic
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statements that was ever made to me was made by
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Dr Rosenfeld at the end of his presentation.
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And, I simply Mr Chairman
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couldn't let this rest overnight without adding the
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factor that important in the whole business is, is the
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reconciling influence that the Church of Jesus
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Mr. Chairman, a specific question.
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In. If you'd all look at your
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at your first page. It is a question of interpretation.
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But I think it's important. On the whole, it seems to me, that this whole business
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has a good deal of sense to it. A good deal of commitment
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about it. This is rather a legal question. In the first paragraph
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maybe at the very end. I am not a lawyer.
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The first paragraph says take whatever action is necessary to establish a separate
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corporation for the ownership. Now then, down in C. and D. it talks about
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before the corporation be created or the Board of National Missions takes title,
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and in D it says, before said corporation or the Board of National Missions takes title,
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I would feel considerably more secure about this if in C and
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D, for The Board of National Missions could
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be omitted. It would seem to be an even more consistent with what is said in one
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and I do not believe, in the siscussion we have had, that it is envisages
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that the Board of National Missions ever will take title.
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Mr. Chairman, I will refer that to Mr. Triboux. I think part of the problem, Bill, is
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that the corporation can't take title till it is in existence.
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And. The option is left open
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for the creation of the, the title. Meanwhile there has to be some corporate
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entity to deal with the title facts of life.
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I think, however. Is Luke here? He's right here.
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I think Luke framed this. Did you, Luke?
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I must say that my department did all that
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provide help and myself. This was an emergency document.
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We had to drop many of these in our office, which are now
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there and give for a time to getting this document out
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At the time, this document was prepared. My own. many of the facts
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that are now presented to the Board, various representatives of the Union,
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and others. When you have a deadline
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such as we have been presented
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can't draft a corporation overnight. The corporation
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is created by a state.
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The charter has to be approved by the Secretary of the State in which it is incorporated. And that has to be signed.
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So, in the interim, if this is to be an emergency
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action, to be acted upon by the Board, there has to be some place where the
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title can temporarily rest. Myself,
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as an attorney. I do not see how we could possibly
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meet the legal requirements within the time schedule that Dr. Barrie has
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mentioned. All I can say is we will do the best that we can.
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I don't think we can defeat.
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One possible place where the title can rest by amending this provision
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at the present time. I agree with the statement.
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as its holding, but I don't know
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where else you would put the title. I'd like to have Mr. Rogers. Lon Rogers
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and I have discussed this matter somewhat. At that is just the point
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The review committee, if you so desired
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over there. There, there couldn't be a corporation in Kentucky
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within the deadline that we face. So possibly,
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we might have to put it in the Board of National Missions
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temporarily. But I think it ought to be spelled out that it won't stay there. I think so too.
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But it will be, as soon as the machinery can be perfected transferred to this corporation
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envisaged on this chart here. I'll say we pounded this out in
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drafting this pointed out.
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There
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Board was very strong insisting that it go in.
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Mr. Chairman. May I say that perhaps in my naivete of lack of
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legal knowledge, I have assumed that the doucment which is before you
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we interpret to be a statement of intention. And, if the
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Board adopts it, we hope in turn that the trustees of the United Welfare
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and Retirement Fund will accept it as just that. And that, and that statement of
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intention a sufficiently binding legal document can be drawn. May I,
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Mr. Chairman? Yes. Perhaps a couple of questions.
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It is my understanding of what is being proposed,
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that this would, practically no sense, resemble a mission hospital as
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we have known the term hitherto. I am correct in that understanding? Yes. May I
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ask if the plan that is being outlined would be adversely affected if the Methodists
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were allowed in on the deal to puchase the Pikeville Hospital?
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Well. Dr. Heydinger [Heydinger, David] and I have said from our very first
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explorations of this that we regard this is the kind of project which
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ought to be ecumenical. In response to specific questions I have said that we,
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at the appropriate time, would welcome cooperation from other
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denominations. I think you'll realize a lot of the kind of things we've had to accomplish over the past
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several months, it's been fortunate that we have not had to do it ecumenically.
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enough. To
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[Lon B. Rogers] Mr Chairman. Yes. May I observe
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on that consultation in Lexington that has been referred to. The
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representative of the Disciples of Christ in Kentucky was there. He said his church had
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a hundred and sixty three churches in Kentucky, wich is somewhat
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double the number that we have, but they could not do it. And, he knew of no other group that
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could do it. I believe there was an Episcopal professor at Danville
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there, who
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confirmed that statement. And, if we don't do it, it won't
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be done. But I would like to make perfectly
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clear that.
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I will not support this proposal unless the Pikeville situation is dealt with
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for this reason. The Methodists have a good hospital there.
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It is right next door to Pikeville College, which I think you know
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heart is very much in. Because we believe that you cannot raise the economic standing of
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any area until you improve its educational status.
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Now, they want to abandon that hospital.
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Four members of the board of trustees have told me this. One of them is one of our
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trustees of Pikeville College and an elder in our church. And,
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I think that they should not be asked to come in all of them, if they don't want in on
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all of them. The one in Pikeville is an independent corporation
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called the Methodist Hospital of Kentucky.
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I can support this if that provision is made clear, but
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otherwise I cannot support it. What provision?
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Lon, would you?
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Lon, would you explain that a little more? Some of them here are
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not sure.
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What provision, Lon? Just briefly that in the event, we take the other five
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hospitals that the Methodists would be given the opportunity, the refusal, the opportunity to
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buy the one in Pikeville, according to representation they've already made to the
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Union, they are not honoring. See they were
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assured that they could have the refusal of that. And I feel that in all good faith, and
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the interest of ecumenicity that we talk so much about, that they should be given the opportunity of
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negotiating for that one there. The support for any
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hospital comes from the total community. The supprt of the Pikeville College
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comes from the total community. We educate not only the Presbyterian youth, but
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of the youth of the area there. And there is no other four year college within the radius of one
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hundred miles. There are other hospitals within a radius of one hundred miles,
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but there is no college. And so this is a public relations problem that we have in
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Pikeville.
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Thank you. May I ask a question of Lon [Lon B. Rogers]? Are
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you talking about. This this is down the road with a
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hospital with an arm he calls homegrown.
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Lawyer
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Yes indeed it's in the second group. Now,
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are you saying, Lon, that, that
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you're interested in the Methodist
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people.