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Robert F. Smylie and Jonathan Kuttab on the Persian Gulf War, 1992, side 2.
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- speakerJonathan Kuttab is a prominent Palestinian attorney, an activist who lives in Jerusalem.
- speakerHe works with an organization that wires and monitors human rights concerns of Palestinians
- speakerliving under Israeli military occupation.
- speakerHe is a well known advocate for nonviolent resolution of the
- speakerIsraeli-Palestinian conflict. Jonathan Kuttab
- speaker[Kuttab speaking] if I had to say a few words
- speakerabout the Gulf War,
- speakerfrom a Palestinian perspective or
- speakergenerally to comment on
- speakeryour words, I'd have to
- speakersay that that war
- speakerwas indeed an important watershed
- speakerboth internationally
- speakerand regionally. Internationally,
- speakerit did mark the realization,
- speakerthe full realization of the end
- speakerof the Cold
- speakerWar and the beginning of a new
- speakerera. You may wish to call it a new world order.
- speakerYou may say it was only the old world
- speakerorder but there is something different, there is something new about
- speakerit, and that is that is is a world order dominated by a
- speakersingle superpower. In fact,
- speakerit may well
- speakerbe that one of the most important reasons why that
- speakerwar was necessary at
- speakerall is to forestall
- speakerthe bipolarity
- speakerof
- speakerEurope unified in 1992.
- speakerAnd
- speakerJapan
- speakerbecoming a serious threat to America
- speakerhegemony and becoming a serious
- speakerthreat to the concept
- speakerof military
- speakerpower. I did recall before that War started.
- speakerBefore the invasion of
- speakerKuwait the feeling among many intellectuals
- speakerthat we may
- speakerwell as a human race have outgrown war.
- speakerThat it had become totally unnecessary. Too costly.
- speakerThat the Europeans and the Japanese have
- speakershown us that you can be powerful without having
- speakeran army.
- speakereconomic powers important
- speakerThat in fact war had
- speakerbecome almost
- speakeroutmoded and, optimistic. Precisely at
- speakerthat juncture it was necessary
- speakerfor the United States, which was
- speakerbeginning to slip in its economic power,
- speakerto reassert
- speakerthat military power is necessary
- speakerto dominate.
- speakerAnd, Japan and
- speakerEurope who, by the way, are the ones who depend, not the least of all
- speakeron the United States, had to be taught precisely where it hurts
- speakerthe most.
- speakerThat they still need
- speakerAmerican power.
- speakerIt was also necessary
- speakerto emphasize
- speakerthe interconnectedness of the
- speakerworld, not through the
- speakerUnited Nations the way it
- speakerwas intended to be, to maintain the world peace and
- speakercollective security. And put law and order into the
- speakerrelationship in the states,
- speakerbut rather as the machinery for
- speakerlegitimizing the interests of the powerful.
- speakerThis administration
- speakerwith Bush [Bush, George H. W., President of the United States] in the baker did, in fact, do a masterful job of
- speakerusing all the leaders at their
- speakerdisposal to ensure an international umbrella
- speakerto what was specifically an American program.
- speakerSo for the
- speakerfuture it may well be
- speakernot necessary for the U.S. to use its military
- speakerpower again, but to point to the Iraqi example
- speakerand to warn anyone who steps out of the American
- speakerline what the consequences will be.
- speakerMr. Baker [Baker, James A., 3rd., U.S. Secretary of State, 1989-1992] was careful to remind the
- speakerIraquis
- speakerjust before the War started, you had miscalculated.
- speakerYou had miscalculated. You had misculated. He
- speakerkept repeating that word.
- speakerAs if he was preparing the way to tell
- speakereverybody
- speakerfrom now on, "Don't miscalculate."
- speakerDo what I say or there will be
- speakerdire consequences.
- speakerSo, internationally, yes,
- speakerI think we do have a new world order.
- speakerNot the kind we want, but the kind that expires for.
- speakerNot the world order based on consistent principles,
- speakerbut world order based on U. S.
- speakerdomination. As I
- speakersaid, I am a Christian. And, I have the faith
- speakerthat this process will not succeed. It will break down. It will break down.
- speakerRegionally
- speakerHowever this conflict
- speakerwas quite interesting ina totally different
- speakerway. Saddam Hussein,
- speakerfor all his faults and they are many,
- speakermanaged to fire
- speakerup the Arab menaces
- speakerby raising four or five very
- speakercrucial issues,
- speakerwhich had been
- speakerdormant for many years, but which
- speakerwillh necessarily
- speakerdominate the region's politics for the next
- speakerten or twenty years,
- speakerhis defeat not withstanding, because in the first
- speakerplace he wasn't capable of
- speakeraddressing the needs he
- speakerhad raised up. First of all, he raised the
- speakerissue of rich and poor.
- speakerThe use of Arab wealth,
- speakerArab oil should be for the Arabs, should be used to
- speakeradvance the Arab
- speakerpeoples, not to serve western interests.
- speakerHe made that point, and he made it
- speakerwell with his invasion of Kuwait. Of
- speakercourse, he had no response, because he himself was
- speakersitting upon a very wealthy country. He was not doing very well at sharing
- speakerhis riches. He himself was not beyond serving
- speakerwestern interests, including U.S. interests. For eight years
- speakerduring the Iranian
- speakerwar [Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988], he was the darling of Washington.
- speakerThey knew who he was. They knew what he stood for.
- speakerIn fact it was necessary that Iraq's potential
- speakerbe destroyed and calibrated, but that he must be
- speakerdestroyed. He was more useful and continues to be useful to U.S. interests.
- speakerBut you hate that issue. And that issue will be with us in
- speakerthis region. It
- speakerwill not go away as the
- speakerresults of his expulsion from Kuwait.
- speakerThe issue of
- speakerthose filthy rich
- speakerrulers sitting on top of untold
- speakerwealth, billions and billions of dollars, not using
- speakerit for the Arab world or even for
- speakertheir own people. Second issue he raised.
- speakerThe illegitimacy
- speakerof Arab
- speakergovernments. In fact all of you in the
- speakerWest have accected what is
- speakerclearly a new form of colonialism. No, the
- speakerold form of colonialism. Moving in and taking somebody
- speakerelse's resources, precisely because
- speakeryou never thought you were taking it away from Arabs,
- speakerfrom the people, even the Third World people. You
- speakerthought that you were dealing
- speakerincorrectly, with a rich family, in fact two rich families, one
- speakerin Saudia Arabia and one is Kuwait,
- speakerwho are filthy
- speakerrich,
- speakerundemocratic, unlovable
- speakerwith nothing going for
- speakerthem. No wonder you're thinking about this
- speakeras our oil, because if it is a question of the
- speakerwestern world, Europe, the United States,
- speakerwestern civilization and those two families.
- speakerThere's no
- speakerquestion, that you seem to be more entitled to those resources and
- speakerriches than these two families. Because the people of the Middle East were absent
- speakerin this conflict, totally
- speakerabsent. Saddam Hussein
- speakerpointed out that issue.
- speakerWhat are you talking about? The Sopart family?
- speakerAnd the Arab masses listened.
- speakerAnd, the restoration of the legitimate government of Kuwait does
- speakernot give it any more legitimacy in the eyes of the Arab world.
- speakerNow, as I said, it is paradoxical because even that Saddam Huseein
- speakerout there is not a particularly democratic or legitimate
- speakereither but you did raise that
- speakerissue and that issue will be with us yet.
- speakerThe third issue that he raised,
- speakerwhich, I think, people in this part of the world
- speakerdon't understand very well is the whole issue of Arab unity
- speakerand the Arab nation states.
- speakerThe fact that
- speakerKuwait is it self in fact
- speakeris a colonial nation
- speakeryou take one look at the map and you see
- speakerwhere it stands with respect to Iraq
- speakerIn fact all the borders of all the Arab countries are drawn up by
- speakerthe colonial powers
- speakerand have very little legitimacy
- speakerin the hearts and minds of the
- speakerpopulation. And on that issue.
- speakerSaddam again spoke and touched the
- speakerheart and mind of the Arab men
- speakerand don't be fooled by those who tell
- speakeryou that Egypt, Syria and all the Arab, or most of the Arab
- speakercountries were with the allies.
- speakerTheir governments were; the peoples
- speakerweren't. Weren't. Hence the parts.
- speakerSo! Saddam Hussein said, "Aren't we one nation? Why don't we
- speakerhave these borders removed?
- speakerWhy don't we share our wealth?
- speakerWhy don't we become one country?"
- speakerIt is very interesting that in these
- speakerdays the United States is formost
- speakerin talking about the territorial integrity of Iraq.
- speakerThey don't want Iraq to split up into little country. They don't
- speakerwant anybody messing around with borders. They like borders
- speakerto keep them where they are at, because there is no
- speakerconceipt of democracy.
- speakerThis is no concept of people's rights.
- speakerThere's no concept of people
- speakerpartication. And yet, these ideas of democracy
- speakerare peoples' rights,
- speakerof peoples hope, fears and aspirations
- speakerWill in fact determine the future of the area.
- speakerAnd we will see that in the next ten to fifteen years.
- speakerBecause all of these
- speakergovernments, without exception, are in fact
- speakerin timidness. Do work for the people
- speakerand do not represent the people.
- speakerYet another
- speakerissue that Saddam Hussein touched
- speakerupon again was not answered
- speakerwas the utter
- speakerincompetence and failure of the Arab governments
- speakerIn its relations
- speakerwith the West and with Israel.
- speakerThe Arab goverment had failed.
- speakerThey had acted more in Western interest
- speakerthen in the interest of the people. Saddam Hussein himself
- speakerinculed, inculed this is a paradox.
- speakerThe paradox is that the man who raised all these
- speakerissues was himself one of the worst
- speakeroppressors and one of the worst violators of these principles
- speakertells one of the wearers of black
- speakerand one of the worst violators of
- speakerthese principles
- speakerif you make them that makes
- speakerand this appeal to the Arab masses. This appealed to them.
- speakerHe said look at the left and look at the west.
- speakerLook at what the Arab governments have done
- speakerThey have failed messerably They have served Western interest
- speakerThey have not served the interest of their own people or their
- speakerown population.
- speakerWe need to asess our apperant position
- speakerand not to lackeys of the west less we fail
- speakerand yes those Arab states that were not willing to be
- speakerlackeys of the
- speakerWest won the war.
- speakerand yet the Western and American domination in the
- speakerarea has increased but they should not have gone away
- speakerThe Arab who both who supported and who oppose.
- speakerIraq and it's invasion of Kwait are all
- speakersaying now what's next we are
- speakergoing to
- speakerbecome lackeys of the rich or will we have
- speakersome firm place of our own.
- speakerAnd this is where the issue of consistency became so inportant
- speakerand linkage.
- speakerSadam Husan was saying everybody in the world was responding accordingly.
- speakerIf my invasion of Kuait is lost
- speakerWhat about Israel's invasion of the occupied territory
- speakerIf I had to withdraw why shouldn't Israel withdraw.
- speakerWhy should there be one rule for them and one rule for me.
- speakerIf Security Council resolutions ought to be followed
- speakerwell and good.
- speakerI have here a list of of Security Council resolutions
- speakerthat Isarial must also follow.
- speakerIf you are using ecconomic sanctions against me what about Israel?
- speakerAnd You can not answer that argument. We should answer not link the two together Israel and you tell them that is that
- speakerWe should answer not link the two together..are their wishes as an admission placing together to
- speakerTwo wrongs do not make one right.
- speakerOK sounds good
- speakerwe've got rid of that wrong How about this one
- speakerLet's just do something about it.
- speakeras peoples in the Abrab world mark my word I'm looking now
- speakervery closley at what's
- speakerhappening and they mumbling to themselves That Hussan was right.
- speakerNobody likes Him
- speakerBut Sadam was right. Nobody approved what he did but his words
- speakerran through and Protect the Arab's ears and the Arab mind
- speakerand they will continue to be with us rent and profanity is
- speakerAnd, they will continue to be with
- speakerus for the next decade or two.
- speakerYes the war is over.
- speakerBut has not fall
- speakerthese are the issues that will be with us
- speakerand you know something these ten issues ought to ring true to us here
- speakerwe were concerned about peace and justice.
- speakerknow very
- speakerwell that the use of resources
- speakerThe domination by this family
- speakerthe need for Democratic Government
- speakerthe need for proper relationship between
- speakerthe third world and the west
- speakerThe need for justice for the Palestinians and for a peacefull
- speakerand just resolution of this conflict of all
- speakerof essentially points that must be answered and addressed
- speakerand address approve military power and domination
- speakerI am strong so I can do it
- speakerI can martial resources world wide
- speakerand force you into the mold that I want
- speakerbut must be addressed
- speakerat the human level at the humanitarian level
- speakerwith compassion
- speakerwith dignity
- speakerwith love with correct principles
- speakerotherwise there will be more and more
- speakersuffering more and more
- speakerconsequences
- speakerand there will be no stability.
- speakerand neither will the United States
- speakerknow the way. With joy and
- speakeror the fruits of any victory, only all of us will suffer.
- speaker[Smylie speaking] It is estimated that a hundred thousand Iraqi soldiers have been
- speakerkilled with a fifty percent margin of error if for
- speakereither side
- speakerno shortage of a single casualty what
- speakerso ever not from any source audio from United
- speakerNations sources. But the
- speakerpeople who are. You know, dwell on these things. when you have three million
- speakerchildren at risk in Iraq before the war even began.
- speakerunder three years of age
- speakerwith the heavy bombardment sixty four percent of
- speakerthe smart bombs missing their targets
- speakerthen we will never know the statistic
- speakerbut those figures are used
- speakerFrom hundred to three hundred thousand at
- speakerleast per death but we will never know.
- speakerIt's says that Hussan continues to be useful
- speakerto U.S. interest and gave partial answer to that
- speakerbut can you address more specifically that question
- speakerOK
- speakerif Sadam Hussan had died he would have won.
- speakerAbsolutely won.
- speakerBut for him to remain in power,
- speakersufficiently
- speakercrippled, his power existing, but calibrated.
- speakerHe is cut down to size. He can be used to
- speakersuppress Iraqi democratic movements. He can
- speakerbe used to continue to counterbalance the Iranian
- speakermovement, the Shiite movement. He can be
- speakerused as an example of the utter failure of any attempt
- speakerto counter the West
- speakerAnd, in a way, it's similar to the Israeli
- speakercalculation
- speakerthat the Palestinian who is maimed
- speakeris a much much more effective
- speakerthan a Palestinian who is martyred.
- speakerIf he is killed, he is a martyr. He won,
- speakerand he can be used to marshal a lot of support,
- speakerBut if he is maimed and becomes a burden to his family, to his
- speakerpeople, his own psychology. He breaks down, becomes a source
- speakerof defeatm a source of shame, a burden. He
- speakercan't be much more useful. I think that
- speakerIraq today does not present a beacon
- speakerof light for any of
- speakerthe five principles that I have described. If Saddam
- speakerhad been killed and Iraq had been crushed, it would have
- speakerbecome a rallying point for each of the
- speakerfive points that I have described. So I think that Saddam is very very useful
- speakerto the United States. The only reason they would get rid of him I think is if they
- speakerget caught in the intertia of their
- speakerown momentum.
- speakerBut they have made him into such a devil such such an evil monster that they
- speakerwill feel compelled that they really have to do something
- speakerabout him. They cannot leave him there. Otherwise I think
- speakerI think it's perfect, as far as the United States is concerned. They have
- speakerhim right where they want.
- speaker[Audience question] Could you summarized the five points?
- speaker[Kuttab] OK the issue of the gap between the rich and the poor.
- speakerThe use of Arab
- speakerresources for Arab benefits, which is also part of point
- speakerone. The second point is Arab unity
- speakerand the illegitmacy of Arab
- speakerborders. The third is the illegitimacy of Arab
- speakerGovernments and the need for
- speakerdemocracy. The fourth is the relationship between the Arab
- speakergovernments and the West,
- speakerparticularly Israel and their failure, and the fifth point, which I did not
- speakeraddress because it was going to be
- speakertoo complex here, the issue of Islamic
- speakerfundamentalism and Arab nationalism. That is another point.
- speaker[Smylie, Bob speaking] Jonathan, a change of game plans, folks. We have just learned that this room must be vacated for the next event that is in here.
