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Alan T. Forbes oral history, 2010, side 3.
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- speakerI
- speakerthings
- speakerleading up to my conversion. Actually, while I'm talking about that, my association with
- speakerthose young
- speakerpeople runs very, very
- speakersatisfactory and enjoyable to me.
- speakera common group of young people that I was interesting. Of course,
- speakermy girlfriend was in that church. And, I was I was living
- speakermy first month out what's I grew up in my senior
- speakeryear. And, the interesting thing is that her name was
- speakerJoan Fields. And I married Jane Woods.
- speaker[Laughter] Anyhow,
- speakerBut back to the to
- speakerMcDonald and his messages. He did not have one conversion
- speakerin that entire week.
- speakerAnd, here on the last night of that campaign,
- speakerhe gave an invitation that I waited for five
- speakerverses of "Just as I Am," before I raised my hand, and I
- speakeraccepted Christ as my Savior, as a result of that. Because I knew that there was a
- speakerpossibility
- speakerthat this whole world of entertainment was not going to be satisfactory. So you?
- speakerAt the same time now, at the same time. i had other interests
- speakerOther than performing and in the middle. And that was because of my literary
- speakerwork.
- speakerI had written an article for the school paper, concerning the Haddington mystery
- speakerurging every hatter who worked for the hatter
- speakerbe sure you wear a hat. And that was an article.
- speakerOne of the executives of the Frank H. Hat Company
- speakerread that article. Heard about that article.
- speakerCommended me in that. and offered me and made possible for me to have
- speakera partial scholarship to Yale
- speakerjournalism school. As far as a possible.
- speakerPossibility for me. Upon graduation I could consider going to Yale
- speakerjournalism school as one of my options. But then I got converted in the meantime, see?
- speakerSo that
- speakermy interest in that particular field left me. I
- speakerwas picking blueberries with my brother in the summer of that
- speakeryear after my conversion. Now my elder brother. What year
- speakerwas your conversion? Thirty-nine.. Do you know what time of year was it?
- speakerFebruary. were that we
- speakerFirst week of February. Yeah, the first weekend of February. Five or
- speakersix is what. When I had my observation and my conversion. The weekend of February
- speakerfifth and sixth.
- speakerBut after my conversion, there must have been some obvious
- speakerchanges in
- speakerme. One thing was. I was not a really cursing kind
- speakerof person. Moving but I never really used profanity at
- speakerall after my conversion. It was remarkable. And my brother
- speakernoticed that. My younger brother was back
- speakerfrom college. He graduated in thirty-nine from college.
- speakerAnd, we were picking blueberries.
- speakerAnd he noticed a change in me. He
- speakersaid, you're so interested in religion now, he said, Why don't you become a
- speakerminister? and I said, No, I'd never consider that, because.
- speakerBecause the only ministers I ever knew were the Episcopal
- speakerminister who came maybe once a
- speakeryear to visit my parents in our house and he had his collar on backwards.
- speakerAnd he drank with
- speakerhis tea with a pinky finger sticking out, you know. My impression of ministers
- speakerwas not good. And I had them or because they were kind
- speakerof compassion our distance and then we went bad.
- speakerPerhaps a little bit louder than not
- speakerSkilling and up for me more in the realm has
- speakerit that all of that you know. To doing this act then.
- speakerNow we ask you to that.
- speakerBut instead of that does not her man. Like the business.
- speakerThat visit with them. And that's really the only cause I never knew any other minister.
- speakerThe A push couple service was so
- speakertalk to
- speakerme in comparing that to rather I
- speakersaw in the year a lot of
- speakerhave in the Methodist Church. When I went to acquire Urso. At the
- speakerMethodist Church. It was burning day. And when I got there early. I would sit
- speakerand listen to the
- speakerprogramming and it was totally within the totally strange slogan
- speakerWe had people talking to God is the biggest part of the
- speakerfamily dinner happen they bother. I never had any any
- speakerpersonal background would were not know anything about that as
- speakera personal relation. Right to voice cliche their personal relationship with
- speakerGod writer her luggage was the party the others a Methodist church
- speakerexact community that religion are welcome You sound like a high meaning and somewhat awkward.
- speakerNow I
- speakerhave somebody associated myself with no be able to group.
- speakerAt the Methodist Church. After Michael Very here we did a lot of things together. We make
- speakerthis is two different conferences. All in the six month
- speakerperiod prior to my going to the little
- speakertheater I went to a couple of
- speakerconferences amount burning up with the own people it was a real great
- speakergreat only experience for me. And there was one man. In that Methodist Church.
- speakerIn the name of jihad Rush really took up the
- speakerCybermen and he took Make it was. And his mother
- speakerwas bright and. She would be able to move.
- speakerJust as if she was a sighted person rather than memorized. She was an inspiration.
- speakerAs well it's
- speakerbeen.
- speakerSo let me follow through. So let that question that
- speakermy brother as many.
- speakerAfter I got the ball now. I thought to myself. Maybe he was running.
- speakerYou know enough months between our.
- speakerThe next big incident was when that one people's group rather than
- speakerfive years to go to a conference in
- speakerBarrington that war college in problems rather than. I'm the Labor Day weekend.
- speakerListen the Labor Day weekend nineteen thirty. And that's when World
- speakerWar two here. Started. Yep.
- speakerAnd at that conference was an upstanding
- speakertenor a little coward from Blue.
- speakerAnd he had a motoring grub cap and we were by
- speakerthe in there on the morning broadcast. And when we went to
- speakerthat broadcast we were just about to grow on me when we were preempted
- speakerby the announcement
- speakerthat the Germans had attacked to
- speakerthe track caused by Robert Eckels the bucket with the latter but some have
- speakerbeen bats when Pope maybe was following the September night whatever it was it
- speakerwas that well. That would have been so good I may be going on more work to.
- speakerYep Yep I think you're right my way. After
- speakerK. have to have a trip to the number nine hundred thirty nine. And then France in.
- speakerBravery declare war on terror. Right and that right was always had a hand. That was a
- speakerweekend.
- speakerI've started alone will say what I don't remember much what I but I do remember
- speakerhow impressed I was with them. Marvelous boys some current
- speakerrules can
- speakeryou share that how to lose and have called
- speakera program called on the mountaintop. Hour. And that's what we were magnet goes
- speakerin and the theme song of that nigger learned by heart I know
- speakerthat in some numb. Part of the
- speakerlittle rubber room. That was the things a lot of progress. But the guy had such a
- speakerglorious time in a voice that I was a he was a
- speakerlynch Parisian. I later met them. Knew him personally enjoyed
- speakerit and he later became the president of were the
- speakertreasurer of rural Vision International that was started by probably the
- speakerpurest you remember the visions are still operative. Were of Asian. There
- speakerwere only in were in Haiti and so what the current mood for many years. Was
- speakera treasure. In the road. That
- speakerleaders humans drive the Real World Vision.
- speakerBob Peters was
- speakerthere but whether or
- speakerno so you. How did you end up from
- speakerthe moon there if you know when your brother OK All right my
- speakergirlfriend. Jordan fields. Had a and girlfriend.
- speakerBy the name of Ellen Stacy and Ellen Stacy's father
- speakerwas pastor of the Baptist church in Denver. And I
- speakernever went to the Baptist
- speakerchurch. But balance. General were very close aloes
- speakersaid Joe
- speakerwhen there was a program unsettled out the other crowd and young people stretch
- speakerof the air and I heard it last week. And they are asking
- speakerfor ten or perhaps our would be interested in applying for
- speakerthat which is exactly one of the. I wrote to Dr Percy
- speakerCropper a post office box to con the now and said I would like to try to
- speakerhelp record that they were going to get me a little bit of the is true that I was a
- speakerson was a loser. I would like to try out for that quarter. He got me
- speakerback and the lease and I have the letters.
- speakerYou said we are having a banquet. In New York City.
- speakerAt the Rogers hotel. And if you could come down for
- speakerthat we'll give you around decision. At that time. So that's what
- speakerI
- speakerdid was the bike was on a Saturday night.
- speakerAnd I went down the train and went to
- speakerthe writers hotel. And the really
- speakercopper person croppers was the news ition or the people's Turkey where.
- speakerAnd she had me saying. She learned what songs do you know I didn't know
- speakerany of the worst of all. All right who is one a brand we haven't Jesus.
- speakerSo I sound rather. We haven't Jesus and she was impressed.
- speakerAnd she said maybe and person Crawford was an interesting man.
- speakerThe fact that I
- speakerwas the a boy from Denver you can
- speakereither get not much of a background or appeal to him. He he was
- speakera. He was a man who always appreciated people like
- speakerracial Alger dollar each you know he cannot get money as
- speakera by was not the
- speakerinteresting because not because he came from a hard scrabble upper. But because he would not
- speakerpermit religious background. I think that's it.
- speakerI mean one thousand little bit about Percy
- speakerCrocker. Her luck. There is a cropper it was a
- speakerman who were who was a great combination
- speakera looter sing harmonization I'm sure.
- speakerIt was business principles.
- speakerProbably promised then that all of those of captors. But he was a
- speakervery quick.
- speakerNot quick tempered but he was the Victoria. OK.
- speakerAnd he was quick to fire people.
- speakerIf they crossed him at all or didn't do on it
- speakerbecause the rules. It's amazing that I record tense.
- speakerThem with them for six years and none of us ever got fired.
- speakerWe're going to talk about them.
- speakerAnd I think person Congress through on the city
- speakerhas developed a great understanding with the West
- speakerto miss back to our lot. But I feed an hour in self.
- speakerModel harder weeks. PRESS.
- speakerRalph loser to his family. Of
- speakerbrotherly children or love you love them and probably
- speakerfor the money was related to it then the fact. Move. Really knew how
- speakerto express not. So he was what fifteen twenty years older than him then
- speakerwas born. Yes twenty years
- speakerolder and luckily black and brown where he ended up and where
- speakerhe kind of our lives and came really among a group or planet. In
- speakerthe police who went through was so nervous.
- speakerWhere he studied a new look by babble is to have the rotten.
- speakerWhen went to quit in college and graduate from college. Had news
- speakera clue the actual number the excellent every move in the US
- speakerwhere
- speakerI think he was number two on the weekend.
- speakerBut still felt was not musical. But it is what it
- speakerwas rooms.
- speakerSo he got in with. What was his business how did he end up and
- speakertell evangelist. From even Avengers you have a public speaker.
- speakerOh yes. From from Alice Through his rags after
- speakerrisk aversion. He
- speakerwas converted by an Irish evangelism. And none of us
- speakerand from the time with humans in biology. He had teams
- speakerof young people who write with to evangelise it means those who
- speakerhad evangelists a million dollars really is adult life.
- speakerAnd then eventually came to know whether and when the organization he had
- speakerplaced that you call the young people's George was near and give a church there he was a radio.
- speakerRegulars in their regular broadcast intervention really how many are seven hundred.
- speakerNationwide radio
- speakerstations of the broadcast. So I live in the lane of the Charles whether it
- speakerwas last or buy a home of the same
- speakercaliber or LORAN think more people who knew of the or bashing
- speakerthem our the new person carbon. Versa grabber dominated is the film about
- speakerthe New Jersey. As of a New York area. We haven't mingle.
- speakerBut beyond
- speakerthat you would probably not the most well known in the Midwest on the West.
- speakerEven though we talk Crips and the libertarian. Because of our radio
- speakerstation. So if our ending point for this session. Is when you met.
- speakerJane was. We today. Would you
- speakerthen you know. He hire you. And he moved to Philadelphia. Less.
- speakerAnd you're right Tyner your primary. I
- speakerhave my my location budget grabber or the
- speakerbookstore at just well and eighty seven in
- speakerjust seven thirty just last week was the I broke I have read. It is
- speakerOK Cuomo. But still which punk rock was the name of
- speakerthe summer camp. That person cropper. The
- speakerman only knew casually. He actual or LEO's in the broken about in
- speakerthe
- speakerPennsylvania right to be strong to murder.
- speakerOK. I don't know carjacked members and need a
- speakerlittle bit was judging the air spell of ten weeks of summer.
- speakerBut mine broke in the stratosphere. And they
- speakerwere I really got logic of.
- speakerOK So
- speakeryou were hired by Percy cropper. When did you begin courses at Easter.
- speakerBack this sudden
- speakeror are right the first year in that I was with a person who I wrote with birds a grabber no right.
- speakerThe just almost exactly. Of the eight months and. After
- speakermy
- speakercommercial. And it
- speakertotally after I had my try out quietly.
- speakerHe said can you be in Philadelphia. Monday night
- speakerI have my trial Saturday.
- speakerBut you'll be in Philadelphia Monday night.
- speakerI think so I'll talk to drain from New York.
- speakerFrom brochure. New York to New York so the one change trains and one of the not that
- speakerwell Springer. Met me at the North Star love your friends took
- speakerme across France hours. I got my car. Room the
- speakermusic and saying that Monday night with the growth in the
- speakerregion. And then those on my way. I was with them for six or seven
- speakeryears after that.
- speakerOK. And when did you began your birth in Tennessee thought
- speakerout the rest. I have my I have my bed. On the
- speakerthird floor of the primer. But still an interesting
- speakerlove my companion who have a real.
- speakerI'm a third floor of the bookstore. Was. Well
- speakerlet's leave came from the mood as the.
- speakerAs a man in bars in the building who say well
- speakerwho Smith was a principle. Player in the in
- speakerthe in the Graham Crusade. And so
- speakeryou began He's during the spring of drought I were in I worked inversion
- speakercroppers milling or up
- speakerwas the first month. That I was there. And on top of thing. Yep.
- speakerAnd that adds to my income a little bit maybe a murder.
- speakerLevel but was
- speakerstill very frugal
- speakercollide. I'm also worked in the
- speakerbookstore. During that time too.
- speakerSo he
- speakerbegan curses Easter holiday each
- speakerunsanitary for him for the next
- speakerspot. And that was a four year degree. It was
- speakera combined six here. Th being
- speakerbig green. Six years. These guys were of our. And
- speakerthen badger of the eligible bachelor theology and Bachelor of
- speakerArts Bachelor of Arts. But you could
- speakernot pick up your busy day after four years. You had to take the hose that he was in
- speakerfor you could pick up in the group. OK OK. We can do it.
- speakerSo you get hello when you're walking and he had I go.
- speakerOne year with a mat and picked up a rock out become a quibble it to
- speakerthe masses given.
- speakerI'm living and doing
- speakerwhat you did seven hears. I did seven years. To have and then. And then a bath or
- speakertheology a basket of our that's right. Was it a good education.
- speakerExcellent. But it was as if you're all
- speakerthe same a large include it was struck. A learning. Group.
- speakerCan the the go to set it
- speakerup in the meantime in ten weeks a year
- speakeras that Bible Congress. I heard. New World.
- speakerGreatest waggled teachers for tried weeks every
- speakersummer. And when I heard an idea. Any names that come to mind
- speakerthat were if you were boys really and that was done through the room growing
- speakerwider hose. My was an intense Presbyterian out there right now.
- speakerYou LOL you who later.
- speakerWho was from Baltimore.
- speakerJust everybody who was anybody who went there were others who was a musician.
- speakerRalph Stuart. The when their mother says later her board great numbers
- speakerare regular run all of us did he his seven. Was probably one of the most
- speakerprolific composers of gospel. Corps is a live in
- speakerthe one called
- speakerup one of two numbers.
- speakerThe lead less loveless. I thought I saw that name in a lot of
- speakeryour materials that he maybe showed up. Anyway.
- speakerRegardless of
- speakerthem. So
- speakerwhen you were living in Philadelphia in the midst of all of this. And in
- speakerthe ninety's and rattling every day. To say less and having
- speakera search and I was stunned when I was on the radio or we have.
- speakerSo the Brady a public meetings every night of the week by about two weeks. Lease
- speakerand sometimes we have one spring where we have forty nine days leading
- speakerup read a subject around southern New Jersey or a Pennsylvania.
- speakerOK model fifty thousand miles a year. We grab. One hundred thirty nine nine
- speakerhundred forty thousand nine hundred forty seven is when you about that about. And
- speakeryou my gramma. Just by living there and when did you know this is the
- speakerway to I met. Graeme Jenny one of only two or left out there. OK.
- speakerStill
- speakerOK then it's Wednesday June sixteenth two thousand
- speakerand five when and continuing interviews with
- speakerthe purpose of our undoing were picking up women that. In
- speakerthen he's forty two with the
- speakerDelta tell me where you
- speakerknow. Memorable day.
- speakerWhen her side of it she was there. Right. Well Anderson. There was a. Well.
- speakerWe had supper together
- speakerafter the teaching session I
- speakerI helped the guys with their Geek. I was better in Greek
- speakerand so I I helped them with it a little bit.
- speakerAs a result of that we finished our studies and had dinner
- speakertogether there
- speakerwe talk. Did I study even further
- speakerafter dinner? I don't think so.
- speakeror. That it's getting up my table
- speakerYou know, she plays the piano.
- speakerWhy don't you go over to that old pipe organ and
- speakerlet her play?
- speakerOh, I don't want to.
- speakerSo I played the piano.
- speakerBut then you guys are all cleavers and also that you were hurling
- speakernice entertainment news editor you like the music in
- speakerthe bottles. I was a professional musician.
- speakerI think that's the way I worked my way from school.
- speakerHowever is a close them.
- speakerSimilar indication at the time was screaming middle and
- speakerbugger grubber guys think one of the arrangements for Mike to listen to the
- speakerpay for the didn't break the law that's a later on the. Well I had to do
- speakerwas a remark
- speakerWhat's it like. Neither you know
- speakersounding ever worried
- speakerabout how you cracked the play.
- speakerCan I do it is wearing on
- speakerthe years nineteen
- speakeralready. The corny seven I guess you did your
- speakerbrother were there. What are the. In terms of career wise
- speakerthough I mean that's really I guess we could talk about this period by you
- speakerwere in Philadelphia. When you move.
- speakerHow do you think she's playing marbles and
- speakernow she went back to school for a mother as you're
- speakerall
- speakeryou know. I've just finished until May and this makes me scared by
- speakerwas below me and then.
- speakerMost definitely right. So she came to Philadelphia. In May of forty
- speakerone know Mayor. So it's Hillary.
- speakerForty three doing. Mayor or is doing were married in May Have What were you doing.
- speakerBut let's go back a ways to
- speakerthat what you can help me with is writing is challenging.
- speakerOK When the hardest thing is separating out the
- speakerchronology of major events. So that I have a brain work.
- speakerAnd so the more you can help me do
- speakerthat in terms of what happened this year what were the major moments
- speakerin ships and. Well with each chapter of this story
- speakerlike sure
- speakerthat. That's the only one I understand we do not have this time.
- speakerSo. We met him in. Well you
- speakerare out for every wasn't making and about forty
- speakertwo are probably too. She went back a second ago when
- speakergoing to Philadelphia. In September. You know the man
- speakermay or may or isn't this I was finished. Well I am a
- speakeror forty two. Well. We.
- speakerAnd I go down at a stubborn confirm they
- speakerare signed by brother and
- speakerSIL so I'm sure that close.
- speakerIt's just that the shared same
- speakerago. OK. So the next is the problem. Run.
- speakerReally hot Well how would you describe these years and one when
- speakerdid you leave that out there one of the ones that section we can talk about we have seventy
- speakeryears in the SO route once you're done with seminar you did. But I did
- speakerthat he had seven years and then you move down about of course you are still in they have
- speakerhim there at the timing this is big and we have what we
- speakerhave five. OK. And so here here's their involvement. Seminary.
- speakerAnd really course is a main
- speakerline. Maryjane there you three forty one three marriages.
- speakerFor a three residence in
- speakerRock Central and reporting on the radio program pub.
- speakerThen what did you do when
- speakeryou retire. I read some of the rather still don't think. I play. Work
- speakerto start a new color. BUT I MADE IT Lee almost
- speakerimmediately started in. And
- speakerthe and the concept program.
- speakerWe that. I stated I was in Delhi with my friends
- speakerstaying with those couples. So you.
- speakerAnd because there is so say these things so that stays until September.
- speakerAnd
- speakerthen they still have to give up that help that apartment they were
- speakerin agreement lived in never. I that they never
- speakerwith his human rights records or you know person I was in there buying I was
- speakerin the room. We had options. Who thought I was sick really what some are
- speakerwhile. So that was before in the you know
- speakerthe I don't know where the oh you were living with that guy.
- speakerIt was given that living with the court that guy. When I met
- speakerhim Who are you in an apartment.
- speakerThe three of
- speakeryou showing rain you. Was a rock for.
- speakerI don't know I don't think so I don't think you lived in
- speakerthat but it just about towards
- speakerall than where your three guys were living together at that time. Jim
- speakerand Brown was living with this
- speakerbear and geography there was another.
- speakerYeah. I don't know it was
- speakera well known important. How would you describe.
- speakerAnd how he forty
- speakerseven moved. I would use Fridays years it was busy and you
- speakerwere essentially in his our family
- speakerand you moved. You moved to Melbourne.
- speakerNo I didn't do it that those two couples the number for the summer.
- speakerAnd then those took up a pen to give up that home.
- speakerSo I I I'm not going to go to. I moved
- speakerin with a girl friend and their parents that I met him. I stayed
- speakerthe summer there. And then
- speakerI had to move in with that. Another girlfriend and her
- speakerparents and. I met there. From September.
- speakerTO may. When I Get
- speakerMarried. Some And. What I did was
- speakerI route to quite soon put me in the broadcast
- speakerbooth I saying at
- speakerfirst and then when she had a baby.
- speakerA plane. And that broadcast the going around the world.
- speakerThis little girl. I practiced.
- speakerWhat she did she had a run. Opening the but cast. What's
- speakerwhat I had to come up to him and I practiced and I know that
- speakerthat was very important to me I had to have that by the top of the
- speakerworld
- speakernever the suburbs were spent a cordon broke. Because
- speakerof what was your question of home.
- speakerWe can use drugs as a bigot
- speakerbecause we have. Percy
- speakerrented for three of a couple ten what the Brown Yeah. And
- speakerBrown wasn't married at all but I mean in Ray. And
- speakerBetty until we were are married or cross a
- speakergroup in by you but it's hard to
- speakergather the Willows the only ones attack whether or not but
- speakerthose were good as
- speakerwell as we did. For one that that kind of weapon we were there. But we moved in that house.
- speakerThe three couples. Firstly rented that power. And we had a car
- speakerthat we had they have to
- speakerremember. What was your impression
- speakerof the camp.
- speakerWhat were that member go for you.
- speakerWell I had been. I had been to camp as a kid
- speakermy parents went over to say the Bible conference which was a thirty
- speakerfive miles or so between Buffalo and the Liane. So I was used to
- speakergoing there but just with my parents I don't think I ever wanted somebody lot more.
- speakerBecause of the low yeah.
- speakerBut I I was used to going
- speakerto let my parents to the Bible can you know there
- speakerwas a present for reproach she enjoys the Word of God and
- speakerclothe explain to you how you have remeeting the
- speakerday. By the best teachers a little world. She just
- speakergobble up one of your both to
- speakerabout getting just wanted to give her a chance that it was a
- speakerformative experience to be exposed to some of the great minds in the
- speakerChristian That created by Byron I didn't mention her
- speakerearlier sailing. Manship he is one of the
- speakergreat hurry Ironside has a commentary on every book of the Bible in
- speakerher
- speakerheart and I wasn't doing person that it was all the room.
- speakerBecause I thought I'm not a
- speakermenace. And then I have to tell you something very
- speakerimportant as the thing today to happen.
- speakerBut I can't stand the radio. Year two years later and bust
- speakerup. And he
- speakersat back their hands sank. When to be with the Lord in the.
- speakerAnd I carbon
- speakerminutes back at them I said when I go to bed.
- speakerAnd he said. Right. When I said you'd said Dr thank when we've
- speakerlowered in the spirit. So I'm going to go
- speakerto him. Now to drop in for the
- speakerI want to go and see that lawyer get the straightened out so that those recall
- speakerour lows about the joke
- speakeror is it that we have been our goal
- speakeror
- speakerblow them away. And I was so
- speakerI didn't do it Brad get us to correct his mistake.
- speakerAnd he finished out.
- speakerAny other questions of those years. It sounds like. If anything for me during that that period.
- speakerWell it seems like it was a hub of the city is on the
- speakermanagement service there. Remember the rovers. For those in some of the little waiting.
- speakerWe're waiting for your graduated from seminary before we couldn't make any kind of
- speakerlike choices. And I felt I'd live. League or were alone.
- speakerEvery night and guys were gun. So we were very good things and
- speakersure they're good friends we are that gap in Philadelphia where we had
- speakerwork. When we got married. Our salary got bumped up
- speakerthe subsea got hours a week which was you. What we were getting.
- speakerBut I was really into the I knew
- speakerwhat he was the first one to get married. And so you're supposed to be kicked up the courts
- speakerat all the it was after one summer. And they did. And now the guy.
- speakerWant to there in September. Together to that but Kasten
- speakersaid. You're going to hire or ever.
- speakerOr in about. We are getting
- speakermarried. You know that the person the other three. We say they were going to
- speakerwait and the in UNGAR babe done with their girls them out longer than dad with me.
- speakerSo.
- speakerOK. And. Those of you in the future. Hello.
- speakerOK.
- speakerCan you tell me about. It seems to one of the things that struck me when I
- speakerwas looking at the documents from the nineteen eighties from Buffalo Christian Center.
- speakerI know I don't. This is my impression. I'm interpeting. So if I'm wrong
- speakerplease say so. But, I saw Christian show business circuit in the nineteen eighties.
- speakerI see all these talent agents. Here is
- speakermy talent and these. This circuit. Was there a Christian
- speakershow business circuit in the forties when you guys got married that we were
- speakerpretty prominent speakers. Bible and then singers
- speakerand
- speakercompetitive as a companion programming growing up as a programming of evangelism.
- speakerAs a primary early on Saturday nights and
- speakerother hand there is a club asserts a room. What
- speakerabout you might meet losing.
- speakerRecording nationally know were courting Argus and presenting them personally.
- speakerTo the brutal of western New York.
- speakerAnd Monday night or Monday
- speakernights and it might mean one of mocking up Philadelphia right now. Oh.
- speakerWe met. OK. We're back. I'll quit your job about it isn't the burden that I was
- speakerI had that I guess what I'm asking
- speakeris in set of me in the forty's. Was there as a what are
- speakeryou participating or was it just being born. It just seems like.
- speakerI know revivalism goes way back. But is it seems
- speakerlike is is tell if you just took on the Christian part of it that I
- speakerwas someone might mistake you for a couple who are in
- speakerprofessional entertainment. Except you're marrying you
- speakerwere drinking and part of those the world know we're all
- speakermusical most musical ministry.
- speakerNow how
- speakermany entertain. Musicians
- speakerand speak what what can you describe this world. This.
- speakerYou know it sounds like when you've read been one of those
- speakerbiography on a biography. And he talks about well. We were all living together.
- speakerJerry Seinfeld or me and we were beginning. We would have a big here that we.
- speakerIt sounds of a little like that and I'm trying to rent a lot
- speakerof something here that we can capture this. In
- speakerone thousand nine hundred forty two forty five or six three
- speakerseven. But I was part of a place. But
- speakerI LET LET was the way I live
- speakerin six days yet my life. How do you know what about is out there.
- speakerWhat how broad is this is a national thing has North America.
- speakerLess was wealthy. Except a single in value was doing
- speakeris OK with they know what I'm asking is how many other people in
- speakerBoston or about are now in land in Chicago.
- speakerHow big is in their circuit. I mean. It went to church and how
- speakercommon is this. In this an extension of what you had when you were growing up with
- speakerthese preachers will come in a town. You never know what is this
- speakerworld that they're scholars going to be interested in interested in how the
- speakerworld that you are entering. Which is not just going to be in Pastor
- speakerof church that very well known.
- speakerBut there's something a little bit of a mystery here. Because today. There's a lot of attention paid
- speakerto. Kristin entertainers most of the these men these but today.
- speakerA popular show South Park with a parody. About if you want to become Thing this.
- speakerGet a Christian rock band started first. And there's a whole industry. A
- speakerChristian there's a special on him and then. So there's a lot of interest in that today.
- speakerAnd what I'm curious. Is that it is interesting to
- speakerme that I'm one level and seems to be an overlap between a Broadway show business.
- speakerLifestyle with backing of the present time. Hot
- speakerhow many other people like this. Rather like you guys who were part of the
- speakerWas there a circuit. Well know what what was how lonely were greatly you
- speakerthink you kind of that circus
- speakerand you're describing. Overcome her. After losing evolution.
- speakerRecord mark and that's what started there was a
- speakerpeople giving themselves empowerment to just move they're
- speakergoing to and I was there but it looks pretty tame with me is
- speakerthat when the big bridge was we knew that they were his trap. It was
- speakera moment. Radio was some regional
- speakertravel creasing with every day that when one made on
- speakerholiday with a big break every lie down
- speakeror well has monsoon I have I'm seeing. Absolutely.
- speakerThem they went across the
- speakercountry and
- speakerlanded in order the good way
- speakerto go other places came as a result of absolute seven
- speakerhundred who came were taken back up it's June
- speakerseventeenth Thursday. Over the southeast when Tonight does not like it.
- speakerNine twenty five
- speakerA.M. And here with Alan Forbes
- speakerin chain for just going to John Ensign on Tyler Flynn. And we're
- speakertaking up. Talking
- speakerabout your move to Buffalo New York
- speakerto work two years with nine hundred forty seven in one hundred forty
- speakernine but at the Prospect Baptist Church. Yes. Got.
- speakerThe last time. Maybe we can pick up with this last time we were talking about.
- speakerExperience and. I was thinking of every
- speakernight. About another phase of the preparation for the work in Buffalo.
- speakerAs far as my work with the person crockery was concerned. The fact that I visited
- speakerso many different churches. One every day. Practically a different
- speakerchurch here on the Jersey Pennsylvania
- speakerchurch. It would be opened by a hymn.
- speakerAnd then the court and Mrs Gropper would take
- speakerover twenty twenty five hour surgery
- speakerwas. Present are more than
- speakerChristian entertainment. Which would bet everyone who.
- speakerMany teams doing that we were you
- speakermake when you think Christian entertainment. You mean saying oh I
- speakerdon't know I'm going. Presenting a program of very
- speakerOr I'll just up front performing whom and I have a
- speakerproblem. And then.
- speakerDuring the
- speakerhears you must be very busy and issuing College and Seminary.
- speakerThat's right but remember they were warriors. And we were exempt from the
- speakerwar. Because we were and some of them.
- speakerI have always felt that very keenly that we should applaud arms elements
- speakerof probably to our work writing one had at one time period
- speakerI even had a side job working for a federalist Then
- speakerstory get married never want to go. So a
- speakertypical we. We know with the summer and he was like it was ten we are going to be me. Did they
- speakerhave a temp a coral week for you than I
- speakerwas
- speakerworking at the new day there in a day and you have meetings.
- speakerAnd I hope school what schools are in a have unlimited room. And then about
- speakerClark Luckily at the moment I would have to get the car and we would travel as much
- speakerand as much as ninety
- speakermiles to the area churches in Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
- speakerWell New York where about us we are way it was another
- speakercase. So most of your travel was with then
- speakerothers miles under my belt there.
- speakerBut then that returning to it man gets less right away. California. Same
- speakerlegal where
- speakerthat not but mainly men they came in for those
- speakertwo hundred to one of the
- speakertwo miles of Cape during the here is did you
- speakerhave had did you ever have a. What were
- speakerthe is how old. Whenever a local story can intersect
- speakerwith a national map anything. You always want is made those as possible. So hearing about. You
- speakerknow some He's well known people it helps we are local. So about another here right
- speakerbehind me. I'm going to quote myself with a lot of them. I Pod
- speakerWhat if you get a personal brand. At Iraq. Heinrich was OK The. The FRONT OF
- speakerthrough it jumps. I became acquainted with a lot of people. Now don't know what are
- speakersome quotes of those years. I'ma all men.
- speakerAnd personally
- speakerknew making up the people that were here I would lose. And at the
- speakerBuffalo Christian
- speakerCenter. OK OK. Yes. Now you are going to have some of
- speakerthe names that I've encountered. All of them are from the earlier period. Could
- speakerbe OK I'm a power like JAMES BENNETT I only have a row.
- speakerBecause
- speakerit I look at Percy cropper. Was he at Pine
- speakerGrove how present was he there was he speaking every day all over here
- speakerwith the order of the old the earth a little
- speakera lot of our muffin. I work with is
- speakerpersonal business.
- speakerAnd so he was a director and a public speaker and didn't get her radio
- speakerprograms from there let we recognize what actually from
- speakertheir other localities. The radio program who their. And he did continue to
- speakerwork there. Or back as you're out we have all a lie.
- speakerA level I was but got the brag that the rug gets it over the world. And while you were at home work you
- speakerdid not travel to churches. Well observed in the equation from that. But this is
- speakera basic cable. There are A quick to murder people that.
- speakerOf had something notable aggregate.
- speakerAnd it would be like one set of campers and come through adult. Yes. Came to have to make
- speakerabout ten children who need I
- speakerguess teenagers. Just teenagers. No doubt their parents are with me
- speakeron weekend meaning they would come. Sunday.
- speakerIf they get their kids in stay here. That's right. What
- speakerwere the. Were there other big moments when you.
- speakerIn the six years. When he said four or Matt. Really famous
- speakerpeople or
- speakernational think that you want to
- speakermention. In the meantime anything now or
- speakerI don't think you we went to the depth of my own
- speakerhouse and down. You know Piers it's neither.
- speakerWe haven't seen them. But maybe other people wouldn't know their
- speakernews so we wouldn't
- speakerget her back.
- speakerAnything else about those
- speakeryears. Hope.
- speakerI'm looking at pictures here hopefully I'll be in the future for these pictures. But look
- speakerat
- speakerthat and the Last night I
- speakerwas there.
- speakerAnd there was a style of programming. That Mrs Crawford
- speakerwas probably the originator and I was in later of it
- speakerand woman's remember. But what the present day is what's called
- speakerthe praise music OK.
- speakerWhich is generational. That praise loser because normally big ten to
- speakerfifteen years ago. Run churches turned from having a choir.
- speakerTo having a group of small a small group of people who shoot
- speakerin the church services. That's all maybe ten to fifteen years old.
- speakerPrior to that lower
- speakerwas audience participation in what were called courses in the early part
- speakerof church services. And Mrs Crocker.
- speakerSingle and link of the.
- speakerWell the a bridge in the leg or arm all that music. She gathered it
- speakerwas given to belts public. Yes.
- speakerFifteen separate quarters. Rocks. That people in
- speakerchurches around. Entire East Coast. Would
- speakeryou can you give. Can you sing maybe a tune the typical
- speakerchorus and a walk with me in the god
- speakerwith no lights. But. Well I had eyes that had a really tell
- speakeryou
- speakerwas do you not know where everyone is when you go out in
- speakerthe Orlando.
- speakerEverybody who landed there. You think is wrong
- speakerand now solo. Globe
- speakeror idea that everybody
- speakerwhether. That's right and that angle well. Mr go home.
- speakerThe composer of that person or a. I mean when
- speakerthe loveless who was dominant and was by Will that you just mentioned Meryl Dunlop
- speakerwas another one of
- speakerthese. There were other quo or perhaps a
- speakerdozen cars. ROGERS. Doing that per user although that
- speakerpayment is a result of. Mrs Crawford but it will show that issue.
- speakerAnd there was this. This is being made to have him around him to come in
- speakerwith an archive this is very helpful to have. Especially with this
- speakerinterview. But it was nano music that would have been a great amount really good
- speakernews up. And I may not use them again but I'm not really the
- speakermost is make sure they come my way with him.
- speakerOK. How can you tell me that very helpful. Can you tell
- speakerme about. When you graduated from Eastern.
- speakerWhat happened that you had a child born in one thousand forty six and eight. In man
- speakerbut he had one where you go.
- speakerAnd so very wet eyes looked like she was born in March of one binary thinking
- speakerthen that for one whole next school year master of
- speakerthe men in the morrow. And
- speakerthe fact he actually it was a plea deal at that time.
- speakerDr a dependent. But they are limited and may just be telling that
- speakerit became a OK. A Great thousand. Since
- speakerit was an extra year. Should class apply as a master which route looms up
- speakerin the vision where you should know.
- speakerBut no could do know that the six train a stick and they said
- speakerhe would be dying in the back to state where you're going to bury him. When we've
- speakerbeen married a couple of years. Do we leave the premises or no but maybe he
- speakersaid. No I don't think we do it has nothing to do with the advance of them but
- speakerthey didn't expect him to. And Dr I
- speakerwas mean that was during these years OK. You must remember.
- speakerWithout being him out of the big hole where we were
- speakerwho we were doing was celebrating staggers
- speakerstatus within the church community.
- speakerBecause of the radio. And because of that short amount of travelling that. And
- speakerhow many job or all of the old regime of there was so that had left the
- speakersame impact on people. And I was told regime. Artists
- speakerwere the pack of being on the radio.
- speakerSpecially machinable radio. Make you a celebrity.
- speakerDo you want to talk about that.
- speakerNo this is where we were so I know where you have very like what did you think of that. You know
- speakerwhat I think
- speakerthe in the only answer and then to my parents.
- speakerWe. They could hear the back can hear it.
- speakerAnd they came to but
- speakersomehow they came to buckled to
- speakerthe same. And now to secure comes not America here's
- speakera pragmatic approach New Year clean.
- speakerAnd I heard that but then that train had who they were and out on a
- speakerlittle stand that they came to this big of a Tory
- speakerand that we have shown you know that we. That he came was
- speakerperfectly there that's when he met my parents they came tumbling into Buffalo to
- speakermeet him. And I was living in Philly but I
- speakercame to Buffalo. So that he couldn't live
- speakerthere. If we could cause.
- speakerHow did you feel about being part of a celebrity culture.
- speakerAnd having that would
- speakerdepend on how you can scan in there who didn't know
- speakerI got a square are ordinary and
- speakerthe I get sentenced except for then I've been thinking a
- speakerlot about it but this to me at least the thing
- speakerI regret. You know I have
- speakermade for cuts and what year was that happened
- speakerthat
- speakerI was running through all her her problems on
- speakerthe boards was in
- speakerthe makeup. So you were saying even if you
- speakerbegan with a
- speakercertain remember. Sure. Did you begin to attract attention as
- speakeryour
- speakerown single put
- speakerme as a solo on that it broadcast travel here on the radio.
- speakerYou know about her was when than if you found
- speakerout I could play.
- speakerAnd then when she had a baby.
- speakerI was no baby it was
- speakerand to play in America and around
- speakerthe
- speakerworld in the burbs
- speakercan't wear the same be.
- speakerThe the basin is in you know Ecuador. Which we went and we're
- speakerdown later. For my and you know what respect the mission went
- speakeraway. To make him. We went there and we're going
- speakerto and that space and
- speakerstill it can be very good read. Center everything everywhere. That was much later.
- speakerMostly. But did you see any potential. This
- speakeryear of you see any potential. What were the benefits of this much attention
- speakerand were there any drought that
- speakerwhen the contracts that I met with people that I could use
- speakerlater
- speakerin the movie. I work in the work at
- speakerthe
- speakercenter also influenced my decision must have been
- speakerpart of a national group in Ruston in the archives where
- speakeryou knew when the but the
- speakerchurches were independent churches.
- speakerHesitancy to be attached to everything that was national or international they
- speakerwould rise the national the when one of the many of
- speakerthe Wonder Dog growing national figures.
- speakerBut no you were wrong and that is anybody. And
- speakerBob peers.
- speakerRun the press and that is their crime and. We went to trial. And you said
- speakerto him. You know I I am. Whim of your organization but I
- speakerdon't need to because I know being people personally and used to cry.
- speakerThe board. What for our best city in the United
- speakerStates too because they move the speaker in new concepts out in
- speakerthe
- speakermail on a billion from the only organization which I didn't use a lot.
- speakerAnd yeah I had the contact or and they know. We were good friends with them with
- speakerno problem but that one Billy Graham with them and welfare
- speakerand get her out through and bought him. And who are.
- speakerThe president
- speakerearly Johnson who was part of the greater worry.
- speakerGround in count. The the fellow who within that.
- speakerHe was a crack and dad went into Iraq and went. Met them
- speakerand second no I'm not adding anything to you but I don't need to
- speakerdo their work. Not
- speakeronly that when I was melt into the radio Mother Bab but I felt that the churches
- speakerwould resent being the problem. I would not have those uproar.
- speakerWhen my vocal charges if I were the sons you needed to a massive organization.
- speakerAnd good the we didn't need it you know. And so it's money in the so then
- speakerthey come back
- speakera celebrity and have this attention that you receive because your radio. Figures.
- speakerYou helped one of the positives it gave you your own set your own
- speakerRolodex OK. I was from a personal contacts for me here. He see any
- speakerproblem with with this amount of attention. And the celebrity culture.
- speakerWell.
- speakerI only say that I don't know why I mention that except
- speakerthat. I really know the others. By
- speakerthe other over emphasized in the movie. For the person.
- speakerThat's not the rule or the simply for the night. When I
- speakerwas with person crap. I love or went to a church that wasn't
- speakerbought with the five dollar governments and
- speakerthen in the Red Sox the I'm going to be in. But were told You can
- speakerbe sure of this is what I mean all the
- speakerground and will learn when people tell in this world that I was a perfect
- speakerrobber was barely come to have absolutely New Jersey
- speakerin the church was
- speakerfull and the going have to or we went contact with Jack
- speakerwork that went out on a little move out if wife were paid down
- speakerthere personally and then Jack became a good friend of F.E.M.A. to Rep
- speakerIt can't kill them in a parallel around
- speakerthe
- speakerworld where I live.
- speakerOr another what it was at that looked at. And
- speakerso then we went there I went there plain perma in to do you know
- speakerthat you know one of those you know it works and son.
- speakerCan't think the same question was witness to my
- speakermusic. And we're good friends but when he was going to move to that says he
- speakercalled us and back peepin down the way down here was down with
- speakersome wonderful musician loads of music. And we're good friends.
- speakerAs we were with by
- speakerthe. Can Really can you walk me through your your transition
- speakerout of seminarians where good up with the you know most of the
- speakertime when bucks. Not all runs from Mitchell's
- speakergroup. I'm alone with
- speakerher classroom I'm in first
- speakeryear of our marriage with one comeback story. You did the same.
- speakerSeveral conditions were just one. But Napa same probably closer closer.
- speakerYou sound just the season. Yeah. It was for them. I would if I
- speakerwas military chaplain I could come back with another person or what will be a couple of streets
- speakerfrom a couple of streets
- speakerfrom the. Well not. You
- speakerknow something else that important that out this summer we got married.
- speakerWhat Allen had to leave the court that they had another panic come in because you couldn't get a binder.
- speakerBecause even where and everyone ran the books. So our work and
- speakerpretty books that are going to this that a princess.
- speakerAnd I were in they were set or were going with just the Blackall
- speakerover and out. So that Alan. Got to know the book
- speakerstarts with his wife he started a bookstore in but
- speakerI'll pick up the thing from it with it and knew what it was what it
- speakerwas in person Crawford bookstore.
- speakerAnd I mean primal.
- speakerYou don't owe our right there on the I will come you know the Christian right. Yeah.
- speakerSure wasn't the study of most novels. I'll Christian
- speakerthe Muppet sure that will please you and you have a good can look sort of day.
- speakerRemember do not assume that the audience knows that these things are.
- speakerSo he had on your Bibles all your commentary or theological writings. It
- speakerwent in with our That was true thing that's in the
- speakerrecord and that. Yeah. And then back. Why
- speakerhe started the bookstore in the panic. Because he knew how to
- speakerdo that but we think I just was looking for a house.
- speakerThen where the books are in the center was to Percy cropper didn't they were pretty much the same we had one time but
- speakerthey only standard because of the expense look time. The bookstore business
- speakerin the in the eighty's and ninety's been going a major major
- speakereconomic could
- speakerforce women to juggle both stores are huge force.
- speakerSome very good what they were so Percy croppers was with like a seed of that was part of it
- speakerI
- speakerthink so seems like a lot of the story does go back to
- speakerPerth the proper to some extent is what we're now trying.
- speakerAnd his wife.
- speakerOK. Can you walk me through how you ended up moving to Buffalo
- speakerless than seven or eight. Well like right.
- speakerLogos some of the pastor. Then the buffalo church that
- speakerI suspect that when we list
- speakersome recommended me to his father.
- speakerAnd then am I mean you can't wait for the loose and move the mad prospect Lima Church.
- speakerMust've been a big carrot enough to support a good conservative Baptist
- speakerin downtown Buffalo. It's that prospect
- speakerchurch is within four blocks
- speakerof what became the Buffalo Christian Center.
- speakerSo, how did that go? You interviewed. I had. I had a
- speakervery effective youth ministry and choir ministry. Jane and
- speakerI.