[Tyler speaking] Conversation about the origins of Buffalo Christian Center. About

nine forty seven nine hundred forty

nine. One of the. One other. One of the religious

element that I want to mention is the Church Hill Tabernacle.

The Clinton Churchill tabernacle. It is located on Main Street in Utica.

Prior to my coming they sponsored New Year's Eve all

night services and radio broadcasts.

So much so that that

became an icon for fundamentalism. The

Churchill tabernacle. But it was in its decline when I arrived there.

And ultimately, they went right out of business because when I opened the Center in

fifty

eight, they took the cross down from that tabernacle and it

became the radio station. W K B D

W The church itself became the headquarters of

the ABC station W K B W. And what

The initials stood for Well Known Bible Witness. W K

B W in Buffalo still exists. Now it was sold by

Clinton Churchill.

to A.B.C. for nine million dollars.

And, his son went west and took that nine million and started

establishing radio stations all over the west

coast.. Can you help paint a picture a little

more

what. You know, I'm trying to think how Protestants.

There is interest sometimes, scholarly interest, on how Protestants have

become disunified and oh I'm going to start my own denomination, fine. We are the red carpet

denomination. Fine. we are the green carpet denomination. And, then also Protestants have to come together.

For example my research in Pittsburgh. Generally speaking the Protestands have been very unified.

And very denominational. So then they think then if these are done. at least during that

time period.

Can you describe a little more of this phenomena of independence between the

church. And what? You would just walk in and they just didn't seem that. To be even aware of another church

and in their in their community that that. That they might share courses

with. Because of course number two Joel Carpenter written this book "Revive Us Again."

about how in the nineteen thirties, the Fundamentism, the Fundamentalists built these

elaborate networks. In the forty's as well. I He's describing

the nineteen thirties, the nineteen forties as well.

And his general thesis is that is that in the United States, Fundamentalists were very

active with nature. Camps and and.

Summer institutions, radio programs and other.

[Forbes speaking] I think that what we are just a coherent group.

But Side ours was the Buffalo Bible Conference. love it that

we've been playing the Buffalo

the school.

However, just trying to think how ominous that was. But not very ominous.

the

[Flynn speaking] So that just was a feeling that there was a lack of knowledge.

A

[Forbes] It was more of a lack of desire.

Where Iraqi Well we are.

We were happy where we are. We have this little corner of Buffalo you all militia that my mother

was a type of provincial

has a lot of the Mandela.

Any other ideas where this might come from was a big feeling

I really got no idea

The the.

The

so the Mainline denominations

were pretty part from each other.

I mean, like the Presbyterians

the that

but among the Fundamentalists

that

the parents at all.

Can you offer up a timeline of

how. So you're Here's a prospect out about this charge and.

Where can you just walk your timeline.

What were went from there.

How about the other lecture where we were to go from there. Resigned.

Let it calls a person but this. The choice that I had to make as a level

of going to consider selling the work and seven years after enough.

First of all the show how distrust. Put it

in whatever you mumbled. And number two love that.

I was beginning to sense the need to expand my influence.

Allies. For obvious reasons that you are a band around right out of

work one of the larger info is out there can and can. And

so what happened in one thousand for you know her Christ was an organization that

a loose. Organization. Of national

origin. And Lou to be a program for that has been a platform mad

because apparently people recognize that there was some kind of platform gives that I

had some leaving home continuity ledge I got from

previous experience.

But the

less and less. In my game for the way. They realize a lot when

the bell level of alert got around and they offered me a position.

A director of the Youth for Christ. And on the.

Jump in can help you but he gave her play soccer moving my companies use

a press conference that would apply to work through no less than we are and they had meaning.

But really meant. And what was actually there was

a model that. Successful so it lets them lemmas some

direct and I was assuming that that when I when I became what

I said lucky to be coming there the

rector. And I also said the man that I am not interested in because of

the absence

of it we have talked at length about. I was out

interesting retaining the name. And Buffalo

News archives. Because the local churches. Did not want to be there were suspicions.

OK probably there it was one of the her promise. On that outliers controversy.

There especially the national body. That my

lap and hollering on several of how that suspicion. Claim was that.

But the international news the crappiest. Well

isn't reaching out for ways to improve or argue by

their own organization.

I mean doing that when we're invading some of the international mission.

They were going into Japan and other places like that which may have memories us.

But I mean myself with suspect that looked like they were going to look

running in the war tried to become them to

nationalize as a result of that they were making it

difficult for some of the indigenous

missions that were beggar. To operate properly and then they cultivated

they would not understand the culture

and but use for Christ was using that as

a gift to come but we're reaching out now.

What are national and. Look to our men as what Sion and that's a kind of

suspicion but that those international organizations.

Moving away from the local congregation and move the harbor. For

the pastors who to preach their own budget. Some

of the absolute power of the economics were

powerless and when there's a typo some kind of in maybe we might see imperialism.

They have surprises. Some kind of

the evolution of the better word. They were that we've come up with

a

larger organization. But bucks. Mike I don't get the impression here

that these churches had a why you yourself didn't want to stay with you surprised

because that's an important. Intersection here is a big

organization. That the villain

does with it was kind of authoritarian and who are these people and. And they're

there they're hurting go about where a good supply of it. And they were taking the money.

How much in the next. That's what I needed money him that's what

I meant

by imperialism like a certain areas that were taken over the mission. The

were left there connoting that these were the big show. We're going to

that's right now though you have

the big No they had the billing grand father and Johnson moaning

about here. Bob Birrell love me like Bob. Now. But who was the

man in Toronto that

you love open. You know them but most don't need to remember

that name Templeton because you become a leg master.

OK so you. Your vision. When you were in Buffalo.

Was sensitive to that distinct religious Protestant subculture they're sensitive to

the suspicion that that independent churches had tore the churches

had towards. You know. Luxuries of the nation that my diminish their their cause

a mission.

What anyone would do. Was to elevate them from a single church.

Months out of a to a total

Christian moment out we are mobile brethren. We love the

lover to one another the matter WHAT the nomination. And distinctive.

We have the word Christian was very important Christian that in Protestant.

That's why we have another knowingly

used involves a promotion

up and then you're

also Also it sounds like your approach. Was not

was distinctly not Montgomery were in here to take over who were national I have a look

and it was the opposite that. This is from the grassroots up. We understand how

you feel. And we are not in competition

with. We are only ration for you. We are we're in partnership with you.

And, then from that

appeal to the. I have the

luxury of having

both pastors and laymen listening of them to me while

I'm giving my understanding of Christianity every day for a

half

hour, and through my radio broadcasts

doomed great coat. Use of Force. Was that really over. I'm OK when did

the radio broadcast begin? Immediately. First weekly. What

year

Fifty-eight.

make of cases. Soon as you know lesson. And are completely unimportant. That

when you didn't get passed take youth work or any man

into units that can be really bad one of those you're looking for in a porno and what station

was that car or W..

This in the other promise to have their eye on the

first about

when that will.

So how many you're him or how many years you're with this first race

issues that are on the

minute exactly. A man. That's when he changes

whether it's OK. What ship. What was his

first show and how long get around with noon

or whatever hour after hour not suddenly after the hour. By

their Bhagavad for them right now. How

did and. Can you describe what was on that show. We

gathered a group of young people from the various churches the group.

Reform record kept. There was a soul

brother was going on about we didn't on the neck up on Mono

like a full full of hours. And your heart wasn't in. You went and I heard from our.

I'm going to have been kept. And this time it. And then the Russian good

place there. You know for much

longer anyway. You know.

So how. So you did you work for you for press for a time or do

you just you know have that live in lover associated with the cut walk me

through the finish line at the time was Gramma working.

Them. OK. Here at home I never work in about another word about that I think that was

him in nine hundred sixty and went to the past and taking change

and tell me then then

we hear how does the manly. You know

Huma the Baptist church partially program about this church. Else

but process Allen. Where how

did you make a transition. And what was

the transition is

it because of what it was easy because I was plucked from

Melbourne usual guys a little called me as I already.

So you did work are you surprised. No. I work for the roll call of the Witch or we had

the most of the nationalization but never a word was called there or are there

but let's assume the bubble you know Buffalo News for Christ but they were

never part of the parent

organization. Now. So it was a new pattern of.

OK. So there's a lot of consultant with them and self-worth. But the new board. People.

It was a new way of. But organization.

Look more organism normalisation level up was up. Was a

was I mean that if you are being tried. Well there goes your oh

I would rather but it was a new THE been a Baptist.

OK So you

work for good meat. We started Zambia brownies. OK.

Well as

the platform man for a local you for Christ but there was only loosely affiliated with the

national organization. And how many years were you in this position.

And it dissolved me are most immediately went to temp with

the pair up in turn now.

And that explains that he added. It was

very much in favor of the Youth for Christ movement. But that we didn't need that. Because

we would didn't want to send money out out of Buffalo. And

I and that Alan knew how to contact all of our speakers himself.

And then use it as this ties and didn't need Youth For Christ. And they

didn't want to send you have to spend a cent certain amount of money to Chicago just for credit.

for out of their purpose and call that was a courtesy call Apollo. So you cut

ties? We went up there to talk

about what we we would. It was a courtesy of our organization to tell them we were to tell them we were going to

be independent. the background right.

So then you change the name Is that what happens next and this is

probably one hundred forty nine. Then you change the name to your time.

Evangelism fellowship. The time of the enjoy themselves. Did

you find the radio you know the

route by blue.

Coverage which was a true fact that we were paying

political. And where was your first officer who were

your first employee of

the first office was on the

look was a color made

a fuss a

lot of the bother job of

a single.

All in one nine hundred forty nine the early years. What did

it typical eclipse

like telling us about all day every day. So I'm glad I

don't I don't remember

one Goodmans was when you moved into didn't mean that you were in

the first. Set of the many.

But

the

the the the

the that

the that the

the the name of your Saturday after five

thirty five thirty. Your time in the air or just plain. OK.

So in the late forties nineteen point nine nine hundred

forty nine hundred what the typical week.

How how did it look and what were you doing.

How does something like that get started

with. Begin to make contact with individual churches. Well

we built up

a mailing list. He was in the our courts every way down

right way to the drug. I was contacting sneakers.

Arabian programming. It was speaking every Sunday in Chad of the world

are Bible clubs.

MARGARET. Wasn't it is always your bracket Secretary you have a secretary.

My mother she would love the first one to

know the I point them at how Lois was my

overcoat but

another Jordans Yeah but that was after knowing

so little girls was by because she withdrew it.

So during the week it was a lie. Did you open your eyes.

It was there every day.

Developing a network of participating churches well conveying a message to them by a visiting. And I live

in

jewels to like just churches in the village really because of the bug that is I would get letters

from people daily at our publicise the post office

box

as regular listeners were very much at the time was

very

much a number larger numbers of bloggers

to reply to people about up the board with it with the general public

as well as the

churches because he stabbed it. He went down the first radio.

Question. Maybe a bad path. A perfect and seven. How about to go through

them type

linger longer.

So the.

When did you start. The rather serenade around is that right away by doing and you help them

where in the local Baptist church. The local news or the nomination of George.

And I have a bunch of in the number a lot of problem

of how long did this phase where you are at this. This

and had the youth time around women ten years ten years like they're OK this was a

period of the of this on our you know you can support them probably night and we purchased a center

instead of OK. Great that the period of the dogma.

What was great enthusiasm among young people for the type of programming.

What we can.

And then one Saturday night. Louis eighteen. Rally.

We rented and now to tell him downtown the big gun obtained

by the them that Margo looked at thirteen hundred that made and then he said we're

ready to have found out that

that was OK. Can you tell me what

was the typical lineup in did it ever change during this decade of

what this rallies were like when they begin.

The word got out by radio by congregations just a newsletter that's right. He says and I'm glad

in fact that we get about maybe a poor remember choir.

Quotes in conjunction with the relevance of the forty different trips and

is that representatives in the meeting and the words. Bribes. All we have a

great time down there. From people that

were volunteers same or did they sing three four or four

for telling you about the whole scene.

We've got that covered me is a farce you like me but I mean with Manning back to news that.

It was a little going to bring it to the

move of the time.

So it rather than it was about their dial that you had been so drawn

to the

close of television all but here's a philosophical basis for my ministry.

Not gotten the Wilbur's Crispin girls. You cannot

marry outside in the Christian shop moved in the diary. In Christian moral

or whatever you need to marry a Christian. But world such

as I'm a moment churches and young people does not have an

opportunity to meet young Christian people from the other churches and when

this became a dating

situation. Were you comfortablewith that?

very comfortable.

Did you feel that this was yet another Become part mental evasion of that they have the math wrong.

Bringing a real life because let me come back. Michael

has one. But move up by about the following

were they were they will be allowed in that the big element that we're talking

about means being a Christian. Being a back those are present you're in

a the pillow. I'm what I meant by that was when memory talked about in the painting.

He said. Not as much about fun as it is experience. And we are trying

to apply to get from that strict world

or maybe the trying. Concept of dry so very dark

and dogma into and make it more Patrick more

porous with the Rev whole reality of life.

And we can one speaker Downey who was way up.

He was extremely funny. It came out with his hands rolled

up to his needs and say funny things. So fun. Began

to be introduced into our meetings that

weapons they like things sound that

manly think it was that sign that they can't that they began to laugh.

And the idea of them you. Young people who are lovable and then bring them to a point

was virtual literacy was at the end of the of the gallery.

Isolate

work and not as manipulation but as a theological a title like the power still

being the sacred in the absolute. And the know that it's all points

all or maybe not that sacred is cut off from

the Isle of Wight to be taken but it's a culmination of that.

OK and money cases it was the introduction of

it was the buckle. Person center. I'm

sorry was the. The you time rallies on Saturday. On the radio.

No no never ever that had been

a station. OK. But never on the radio OK So can you walk me through like what

time like come what we know we're going to happen at three and then when you guys go home.

Can you just how does the whole thing luck. Well you have to look great what was

the whole line up like one by one of the typical matter the number one.

You

would be a color going to shelve Sol an upbeat. Color these are some lives

close use of those debates. But

not those in the I write for all the movies leaving the song Jalen.

So you are going. And we hope that maybe thirty or forty people

sitting around risers at three to get a

new audience that feeling that there were maybe saying they were not going to be a

lot which money churches had that feeling that a lot of people don't sing in church

because they think they're rather because although as you

know and I say that we had a prayer meeting with the kids. You know at six

thirty before the service and many times they were

requests for next week we had it. I gotta get this.

Basketball for them. That said a prayer we have young people when

they were comes and you were going on the years between forty six and

something like that are looking at when the new

move then the mission. OK. So what percentage of young

people what percentage of adults with the at the sat in a rally

was it would be a dozen who had rather person a number of

people whose one hundred percent. Yeah. They would drive them. So the only adult for you in the other spring it on.

And the driver who brought the end of people. I met him and most others.

But that isn't in the congregations where the took place is not like half the congregation know they

just to see what was going on well say over six

mil some is encourage let your young people be to go with the idea that they

could be private if young people there were none now

well young paralysing young people here I have dealt for

their welcome they were there were some. But I compared because

it was really for the young people I was my body a person was OK.

Now how how

did walk me through the preparations. What the line of could be

who the speakers typically were. And then the breakdown. Can you just paint the

picture of what

your lose. Speakers were not actually know a little exposure

to evaluate those real personalities.

Download the words. Serials.

You communicators. The struggle a little if you remember.

He talks about what the experience he has R Q pension.

Was speaking to high school and suddenly. That was his

occupation and he was in the area. Then after cleaning my room of said I'm tough

to communicate with when he would walk out on the platform with his

pant legs. Rolled up some of

the wrong things. The words I'd like the examples of funny though

that nothing. Put us no speak or whatever and have since is big in

some laughs. You know the millions that is inside. And he was a magnet sleep on his own

imprint don't you can tell jokes.

Bank. And then he would draw on the net at the end then they were they were

completely decided then and there are humor. And we have. And they're going to get him

to laugh. And then he's going in the like

now. RAGO record of

the little things so that you can go from your personal take your way and.

Standing in the right book kind of work and they're going to realize.

So these are still remember. Return there or get that. And they

were gauged to people and they were step listed as leaders

knees worse than most leaders. People that I drew from

the drug lords

an organization which was a news organization also in New York City and

I would love to people elaborate McGill was one of the

and from the bride was was frequently. Our rallies.

OK ma'am but we would have a musical time presented by the choir.

By the soloist.

Well. So we'd begin with a chorus you know as our congregation I let them

had left the store sequestered courses. Such as our group home with Jesus is weaker than

the naming For every now and then the other thick. And so frantic trumpeted with new music and

it was did so it was in and then appeal. And they had not these

big motor remember that knew it was the only source.

Personal corporate books were the only source of course. There wasn't a business turning out the

lower house right. They were new moon. They were unique and those

are excellent a good set of Who and well. That would be disquiet was thirty four there

was around again people relapse. OK. And then who was leading the singing. I was.

You were leading and I was a Mandela client. I was in control of me.

OK I was the your the MC. I'm missing the whole

thing as a great invitation at the close in the middle because it was a gift of

my with them inviting them to receive Christ as their Savior Absolutely. Even

about her they whether they are not the that the never going to be imitation. And I'm going to be in the direction of

Bruce other than that.

Well they now granting that I sat down and that

can partly also that you wanted to make sure that this relationship with the

congregation listen this is a buckler thing and there are that one out right under the one of the

other smart reason was I love or did. Let me present it as

a singular. You've been taken to salvation rather than dedication.

Ok so many speakers what a mix. There in that they should.

My invitation was always for salvation. So accept Christ a personal

say or think it's really my way up to the American the churches job with the

three people the benefit of the eye with a willing them. Your job was

to have a decisive decision and drive then hand them off and.

A dedication is like promise to renew it. Or nobody away.

Maybe they had made it. Maybe they had nothing about education means less service and I'm going

to go OK So you did not

want to have their commitment to the bond hearing giving the resources to

the center to your ministry. You wanted that to stay in the churches if I

did one that the meeting itself would be programmed for gather geisha

and not for salvation.

To clarify again. Dedication means. To

actual service. And in oneself in time and resources and I wanted to

preserve that. To the churches are respected this is a relationship that you were

in concert with

them and every comment below our commitment to the deeper. Christian life. Which moves

which includes having the location move the witness for Christ. So

also

you come to individual basis like there is a missionary in Japan or a single

girl who's been there for years. And she says.

It was that you point she had never even. I don't think she but then we do still

think you name is responsible for her being in to pay

him. And the rock and the ring. There are dozens of other people

but there was a sponsors.

The sponsors I had already in social work in the law because of

the will place where we started with a congregation whether. Welcome of the.

Then we have these songs that are about bother about what I was part of the five

different colors. After the cap.

I'm looking at their phone. That was the other kind of like the old latest both of you circle package what we

would call a musical package which included in there were girls on the subway or races

down the aisle and this

is the muzak and his and I was wrong. This was a star player I think there's

a spectator but yours was the audience's guns

or were participating in the program by five of the

girls trio. And which was really. Then it became a quartet. That was just into us but

we had a court that and. We always had a male collect

that. And some Penn State where funny hat. Sometimes grapples with

Comeau in a pre-sell sense. So then you're fairly writes to me that what Yeah.

They were

always interested to see you with a loose going to come out to have

one Saturday night and I went down and he said I have a terrible cold I can't come back

to play. And so we decided that I ate would be introduce him.

So I went out and found and I said I'm sorry to say that the Allen is now twelve and eight.

But his cousin Kane. And so I asked him to take part. So anyone comes

on a dress like a farmer

and and eight because he doesn't he doesn't even sound normal. But he

could take over with that because it and he was good now and

forever and that sub of people thought that was a

riot OK. Just curious what were typical numbers with the bone number

and was a high number of points of those it had ten S..

What order to have solve them in this congregation can hold that

many you know. Wow A

thousand another going to fewer than are sure to turn this is before the center. Up

with two ounce. Yeah. But if you're well OK. Four hundred but the sickly four was

seven or seven hundred of you project courts and the new had to have a bigger or. Talk.

So then that we have a. You know we have the performance that you just described. Right

then or production of this week

or bigger than the station. Good luck. And I

cannot tell you there. And it was what seventy nine seven thirty seven

thirty nine. Yeah. No maner benign. OK. Tell it

will be young people time after the social time on their own. They went down

there and to them and. Prior to this day when I'm out on the

road suddenly yet

or what what do they what would they do for afterwards is a big point I really don't eat

someplace that they go out to our jobs who are down. I once went down in

the cellar manic. They went down there. But at this

point in you wanted them to socialize I get one of them

to me in date the right.

And I'm in a different tangent and even less so we're going to move out were

voicing of the idea was that you were battling a way and keeping a

broader net when either Gore or I was in a girl up and then they would know each other we were there were a lot of a

platform to do that

but not very curious. So the meeting ends

and I can see the progression is it is I want to go to one of the.

It is it inviting is a lightness that abounds on and then it can get serious for a time.

Those Fun Night o'clock and pretty much

are because bigger now we have either of those laid out what. What

they were just with the kids like to have fun in the. What would they do.

Before the center with their THE But Michael Lewis. Limbo they did over our

to go to such and such place Monday night. We. We had growing.

Dating once a month. And that you have to tell what you did in that

well what was an actual program we had bills for one year roller party agree.

Models I have a mother being I rolled up our

impact. They would come from all over the seven coming aria. For those

row apartment aglow giving them up one form or donate a social baby.

And my know all kinds of social networking is unless you are gay. That's right.

And I would let them skate.

Deprive any of the secular Romer ring. I will try to use Christian music I often play.

Sometime came with whether or not they had an We're going to take there. So they held

it out of the day about halfway through

about an hour into what I would call the hope that on the microphone and say OK

everybody got a pro or thereabout uproar. And they would sit on the whole I've got them for ten thousand

a given number of days and I'm going to have anywhere from ten the border to accept the

permit

to stay down the heat our weekend that the OP a year maybe the press again.

They go whether it's now that I'm an album

we have personal workers that would be it would be to one of

the individual. And I assume that the common.

The common reference point that you were you know.

Working from is that their experience of church was serious have

a

discipline like you know that they did this is this is new There's a new this.

I don't hire an incumbent most of

these churches were some a mugging would have less than two hundred

people in

the. So the point home for anything that I'm

David now and then the program may not but they were totally serious when

you were competing with this weather is if there was a lower. Implementing what needed to be

done for young people.

I would think that the most socially it would never have would do their Sunday school class

or Larry you know. And then use groups would be anywhere

from five young people the bottom may be that was a side they

would be twenty. So you. In some ways you feel that you were offering.

A balance to church. Church had play Sunday

morning Sunday best. But this was a. This was sacred but it was a different kind

of sacred to bounce out.

You know what we were thing is the Christian life that for every day. Rather

than

Sunday where you are Christians should be charged.

Personally experience I hope you will say. I have to go that low the boats and everybody that

was arranged to those people will have not been exposed to

a moment your Christian experience most of them.

Christianity in that the common feeling was a Sunday. In some ways whether some a

Sunday phenomenon in a certain building a certain state of mind that was rather happy.

There was a let's watch touch the does of life. Instead of us

probably you know. Half step and it didn't even have fun time.

The pastor was serious and make them change from we can have fun time

hanging that much you have to you have to

remember

the the megachurch was not even the My mother knew

by the time. These are Smol congregations that

that movie. Of understanding of the Body of Christ

being introduced to Advent bombing

or OK.

And so will that will break. I had a bigger question there for our God but

that was this year round. The Saturn Naseeruddin

total no nap during the summer. We had spam level and some accounts.

We did not have that. Jill to

lie on it but we had some expanding what were the summer camps.

I may not have been

have for you the best out there do I think you said there's a several different.

Well. We had there were really. We were ready for Israel

and a little would pay a certain my way. Really

like twelve hours a week. Well over the blame for a

week we learned out where your grandfather

headed out a little carmaker here in and out of our car.

You know when you saw that Brazil. Every summer. The entire summer. Model.

That's a rather two weeks of those or three. But. So there was no youth time

it was only during that we're

there and then you took a vacation. That's rather. And they had the two weeks to

get out of the go to be open to the radio on the radio. What were

the programming body. People in the daily read it was that

you're around or they're just during the

summer during the war when you're around the only

exploding one boy war there is

a high point of I left for work. Dipper won't go.

But both the tell them what they were. What was that got

the going to and they had two different.

Can one go to different stages of one pick up in the second.

In the midterms word. All of the Syria. And they sang

hymns and we grabbed the conference or man went where

clients saying things and

lap and so far and that. And then ramp up with come out in

the

room and I speak very never dreamed of giving him a patient.

And that was the M.P. pretending to live in a bank that has a

Presbyterian church when I play.

That this is and then they come out.

Athlete in the face. Then the no having him and

their tails and that is it never tell

me that that was a hint for you

here. You know. And I and.

And he was very much like Percy and pursing

recognised with some in this. I think in terms of.

One night and me. Any company that you

carry around and then with them. This isn't happening here.

Really just didn't say we didn't know beans.

And that rainy Joe can. Who have been Christians all

their lives they've been about a Christian home.

Isn't it

down and. Why wouldn't hear. One of

those guys around him some incense. Nineteen people raise their hand.

I'm not what I call are you gave

us this morning. You will now.

And there were people in the service there

to tell. Prince he had an insight which amazed me because the

feather

guys we're big good Christian

Blake.

OK we're picking back

up.

What was your point one of the

started.

Now.

OK. So we're at the period

here. Before

you move to the center. Bill that you may seem to be.

And I just I guess. One thing I have written down here is

curious is if you

could say more about

the

camp.

What. There were two camps in western New York. The

Niagara Bible conference on the buffalo Bible copper. Where were where the. Well was

located in my Agarkar look at all cult New York that was a lot about

the one that was about another monkey. In West

Seneca which is a suburb of southern suburbs.

About on that was called the Buffalo. Bible.

Conference which later became the buffalo campus of

open college.

OK. There was also. Maggie Miles.

Who east of Buffalo and there was the

calendar Bible conference and we will never

read that

when we demand there but I think with.

OK. Because Lana bridles I'm glad it was over.

But they this conferences. Hello hello.

Dave the meetings. From perhaps July first celebrity maybe even

the weekend that you. What a pal that their own conferences.

Separate I were

him. We were

among. This is a thing. The groups that rented

the content grounds. So

that the people of western Iraq were able to go to

these coming to the home study the Bible and be inspired.

We purchased. To Would we rather for two weeks.

Each year. So that the young people could

go into a climbing experience. Rather would be twice

as they dealing in. And they would be if I was in dormitories.

Going through meals a day. And they could do that for about ten to fifteen dollars a week.

So the homey for young people. Again by our supplier.

The others work for adults. Your campus for young people. That's right.

Two weeks. There was a group called the child by Jill ism. Subtle ship.

Located near the are clean. YOUR of them.

Which was for that are the children's Bible

classes in the homes in western New York. And you had you had mostly

teenagers tracks from these were news were elementary school children.

Now. Are you saying that you would do to me said one can. Into the general camp.

Like the roots of these are two weeks of season so you my you're my one year.

In one cabin as well

be involved in a lot. We were buffalo. Earlier.

And then we went to the lugger was up with

work.

So that's when I'm at my was of the time we were.

OK OK.

So much happening. Company she had a lighter and

more will be the mornings were

teaching. Teaching. Less. And he looked around

at regular Bradley. Nothing but

a loving but a couple of courses in the morning. But there was a program

and very much like a

rally and other I'm assuming other typical came back to that he's had

camp counselor all you had while

ago I had the same team and to bed. The whole thing

was developed with your plan. Into things.

What competitions need to and then they play baseball in the afternoon of a ball

or various other day was that we arranged all of them other started

clapping anybody who knows.

A very interesting.

Can you talk about that first decade of radio.

And right. Were there

any changes. Did a pilot the job I need to grow in ship radio station.

What's we ship the radio station.

Movie grandmamma station called and W. X. Y. R..

And when I spoke. We went to a morning broadcast.

Well you can be doubly which was the fifty thousand watts that action and

broadcast live for the love of a lot of legal know to be heard

in the New York Philadelphia or was

up and down that somehow come. So that might

go right you're the one station. That would result in way of unity station.

Very powerful station.

Like W K B K B twenty. Do in Medicare.

That's for when I'm sober I didn't see what you're the very that's a but I think

was that the dollar mark about a hundred thousand watts up

market when I'm broadcasting.

F.L. than commitment. In the to later

I was what we were broadcasting

I had seven in the morning.

We had a lot of other but you're with absurd weather. I've never gotten the year with

the. I think it would have been forty years he went from a smaller station to the

bigger station.

Run. I'm sure of the time when

our program started. Good news that no but I believe. But start

with right after the class suburb in the afternoon I think we learned when the

good news

that maybe nine hundred fifty nine think that we

will we we we were on

that I'm proud past that went down the

hall and then and on came home and back. I've got a call off

that station because we're getting calls to come for meetings down the column.

And he said I have been terrified and I'm going to work in battle. And

I'm not going to start traveling. How did the results of our.

I was in the local and then the better.

That being on that station.

I'm going to smaller station that's just not drop the drug just reach the seven.

Western New York problems. I've devoted moment of a streak of the seven. Of junk.

Plus someone on terror.

Yeah. That when I'm driving distance. Easy driving is whether

the distances that my broadcast were

going. Where there

are any Can you

describe for posterity. The content of the good news at noon Joe.

Yes and that became your primary show. What's on the became

my primary. Program. Also which would consist of a lot of

things than followed by an opening moves or goal number

of various types.

Followed by three minute.

Expositions about with her verse in the Bible or a

highway or an

incident occurred or value. The new

commentary and it was quite a good move that little because it. And the bio

mother was that the word gospel is a translation of the

word good mood. And so that's why I called the good news that

Moon was attracted

to to the mind of

people back then can. Came home from school. From school

for lunch at that time when many of us tell us that they grew up

with locking in to their cows.

Eating. Their minds and listening to go to news that no. But because

some found the top thirty and then they went back to school up to a new

project without in the stuff that was in the orders that

were or Murray was there anything like that remember meeting about the people

that had so many listeners and

others that were there listening or

not there are letters from twenty fifth anniversary a lot.

Well the good news is new. Well. They want to clarify that

again that you risk. Just in they received press bonds from people saying

how much that particular shell.

In your opinion. That is they

sent contributions. Whether they would send their contribution less money than they were most

of them do

it in your opinion. Rise to the radio program going to noon.

Perhaps the. The most pivotal that's what I

believe that lot of our legwork members of I believe

that every place leave on a meeting. They think we my hunch was

in that we sat down and have

a good news that no one was not here to you know it was

near to house was wise and the Bible as a people look. You would expect

to be about and that was my certain of the housewives.

But many men went out in that back. The land and they're running

things are going about

cash. How else during his time. Did you

develop your record or continue your relationship with the local churches in

Buffalo who were invited to speak out

in

the. Kirk is of the air for a special

event realistic meeting was a but suddenly evening

meetings were desirable for in Belgium of them where

the morning meeting was designed for

worship. But almost every church. Evening. In the House of the six

of us. And we were in my head with our team to come and result of

the program and on a different church. Every single week.

All things. So we know nothing that was with your primary. And I. I will

take all those extra was some dies or was a private yours

or with them but mostly it was Sunday night.

And you say that was the primary means I wish to pep this. REPORTER And this growing

relationship with the was one of those. No rallies themselves that obviously the radio.

Rally

around Leo services in

We always had a Sunday night meeting and I was playing in

a

Presbyterian church for thirty one years. Beginning in what year?

and there. And that's not a

Presbyterian one. Such thing. But some years after

what were dark that might have been but not as well. Well. But account.

OK I need to happen this again but the nomination is very interesting. For religious history. Because

it indicates a lot of different

things at this point. If you thought gosh. You know what were the for the

pot five. The nominations or churches or congregation that

we typically got invited to. It was it like Baptist

person or what would be well the well the wage bill would be the first most common. Level.

Independent Baptist with the most common.

Louis and Wesley a Methodist

church.

Ret president changes. Was little and I

that. The pile of rubble.

But that wasn't really Dublin but all that I have

read here. But mostly in the bell went up those that are

really not very well but I'm an American Baptist.

But that's about a bunch of

other IT HIT ME Here is what is your strongest support

from even gel call. And then some

fundamentalist social Is it the churches that

were really mobilizing the nominations were

less basically about any significant support to us. So there was a

shift from your years of person property when you did visit.

The a church. Pretty much. But the bulk of Christian. Mainline churches win by

going any further than doesn't have broad appeal. But with the Buffalo Christians that are and

your ministry was almost exclusively. Would you say even dumb because I'm fundamentally because I'm

a rhyme churches were interested in the Battle of them.

Why do you write anything here that difference between your spirit and when you were basing out the

other

person's property. You know that there isn't any. I thought you said earlier that person.

I'm going to go home. I don't know how many that was that

represented the. But basically would love to have a global

contraction with proper

goals. But there were many different domination.

But they were even telecom able we got off on that I can't tell you with the paucity

of the power of the left so couple of purchasing less than your one

had no power. With God or the laws where I was observed. OK.

And socially. Try to get dragged

me.

Come back I'm playing pick me about that carriage

and think about

I left trying to quit trying to be in the lower.

We know in force at all even social

matters. They were just. They were just they were big it was like you were

working around a mainline Protestant establishment know you. There was

a vacuum and they were except not reaching the public not

active and so you. The vacuum.

Really when you walk in the religious near the cap of or about there. And then promptly searches that were

outside the summit for their ear

isolated or or weak. The two largest buses or three dogs but

she wrote some progress which are going west world history.

To prosecute which was alluding to earlier that socially. Up.

Went to the Westminster. So Crow was more.

But dying in the neighborhood and them. The Penguin Press but you're

in charge was

quite like him are not.

Campbell. Yeah. And then I think that mentality.

I know Marx was was going like I was a fire or other the

global presence or it was just a roach.

Where was Westminster Presbyterian is in the

door and it was not added up on it like

at well there is that about not a lot more of a society. OK. I'm

not saying as a result the government.

But they were around the other what we went there when I think that we hear bank something.

Matlab somebody theory that they had everything sound. Exists.

There was also her strength that we have is that men in that you know I find

this summer has been has been having the employment.

And it was first to really look I'm OK.

COLMES musical news don't look them so I mean restaurants.

They held to that. The hotel about good luck there was

no knife or no cap.

I think we're ready to begin. This into your

decision

to buy the then he rocked through

that ready came from. OK. The little bit of the.

The background of that it

is that through my board

member was introduced to

the member of his church who was

locked out of the board of directors of the Eagles.

For eternity. Who was this board member.