Alan T. Forbes oral history, 2010, side 2.

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[TF] I'm going to probably have an Eastern student transcribe this. You know, just
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have them do the work of typing it in. And so, it will be saved as a typewritten interview. [JF] Well, a
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friend--a
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man friend--that I did not know him well.
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But he knew me. He had gone to the Evangelical church where I had been raised.
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He was in Eastern university. He
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and his wife Had known me
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since I was six years old at the Evangelical church. We had been /
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remained friends. And he called me; he was in Eastern University (Seminary) and
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he called
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me and said, "My wife and I would like to see
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you." They had been good friends of me and my boyfriend from Houghton. We had done things
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together, which Ed, Ed Stady was this man that
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I had known since I was six years old and he called me when
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I was home. Living at home that year. And he was home
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with his wife from Eastern. And he said, "I've
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got a new friend and he sings in a wonderful quartet. You would love it,
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Jane." I began to think. I said, "You know, I think I heard that quartet."
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I said, "I think I heard that quartet in Binghamton."
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And I said, "I know what you're
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talking about." So I thought no more about it. Then he called again he said, "You know, my
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wife and I would like you to come down to Philadelphia to visit us before you go back to
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the Bible School in Binghamton. You can come down there and just go back because
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my roommate lived in Redding and you're going to her house."
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So I did. And that is where I met Alan. [TB]
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I just wanted to clarify. So you were at Binghamton and ... [AF] It was
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mid-semester time, apparently, Jane, because it was
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February. [TB] Do you remember the year? [JF] Oh yes
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Because he asked me to come back down in January, when I was going back to school. [TB] So it was the winter of '42, '43. [JF] No
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no no
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no. I met you in '42. I went to college in '39. '42 January of '42. [TB] World
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War I,
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World War II going strong. Pearl Harbor just happened. That does overlap Pearl Harbor then.
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OK. And I'm sorry.
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So you were in Binghamton, and you, I'm sorry, you went..." [JF] No, I was back in Olean for Christmas, and
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when I was going to return to school, I went
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by way of Philadelphia. [TF] Just for the fun of it. It's a long trip. [JF] I went
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on the train. [TF] To see friends. I'm sorry. I wasn't paying attention
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for a second when I was sneezing. OK. And you went to Philadelphia and it was see friends. [JF] Yes.
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To stay for a few days with friends. He was the boy I'd grown up with. [AF] Mutual friends. [TF]
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Mutual friends. [AF] My friend and her friend. We met by mutual friends. [JF] But I was staying
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there
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for the weekend. [TF] And you had grown up with this fella in Olean. [JF] Yeah. [TF] Ed Stady? [AF] Edward Harry Stady. [JF] He was six-foot-five. [TF] So he was a short man. [JF] Yeah. [TF]
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OK.
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And then you had heard grandpa had performed in Binghamton... [JF] That
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didn't have any effect on me. But when he
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said, "You know I have a new friend and he sings in the quartet." And I said, "You know, I think I had heard that quartet and
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I thought i had never heard music like that. That
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was Christian music given in a very wonderful way...but I didn't
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mark it down or anything. So when we got to, when I got to Philadelphia, on
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the train.. On a Monday morning (I was there for the weekend) on a Monday
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morning, Ed went to school and Dot went to work.
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They also lived with another couple. The kids couldn't afford a
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single apartment, so couples went together to live together so they could afford an apartment.
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So I was alone all day and was reading. Dot was at work.
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And Ed was at school. At 3:30 in the
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afternoon he came back, with also George. George Kasper. That was the
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two couples who lived together. He came in and he had another person with them. He said, "Oh!
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I forgot you were here, Jane. Alan comes home and stays with us every Monday
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night. It's his only night off." So he walks in reading
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the mail and he said, "Jane Woods, this
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is Alan Forbes. Alan went with the
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other fella, George Casper, to teach him Greek. They said, he said, Hi! and he went right
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back with George, to work with him on Greek. And Ed said, "Jane, I will take you to
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see the-- he took me to a
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place to see ... aquatic things... [AF] a planetary? [JF] No,
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he didn't take me the planetary. He took me to where they had a lot of fish. [AF] Really? [TF] This
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was where in
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Philadelphia? Near Eastern seminary? [AF} No, they lived in an apartment in
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the main in the center of Philadelphia. [TF] Center City? [AF] They had an apartment in a place called
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Spring Gardens Street. [TF] I know where that is. Yes, it's near the museum. [AF] 3333 Spring Gardens St. That's
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what makes me think they took you to at least
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that institution. It's nearby. [TF] OK.
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Why don't we pause and take a break and then Grandpa's story. [JF] Yeah.
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[TF] OK, again this is still June 16, 2010 continuing
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the interview with Jane, Letha Jane Woods Forbes's background.
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OK.
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You mentioned how you heard music that Grandpa was
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playing; it was Christian. And it was entertain... Do you want to describe...? You said that you'd
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never heard music like that before--a quartet. But it was Christian music. Can you elaborate on that.? [JF] Well,
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I certainly was, enjoyed that concert. Just one of my friends, and said, "Do you
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want to go to a concert in Binghamton?" So I went. [AF] It actually was in the
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Main Street Baptist Church. [JF] Right. And there was a big crowd there, and
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I thought it was good. But I didn't go home talking about it until
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this man called me, this friend, and said, He
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sings in a quartet. And you know what, I think I heard
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that quartet. And that was the beginning of it. And then Ed came
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in with him that night and said, "Oh my goodness, I forgot you were here." Because Alan comes
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to stay with us every Monday night because he
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doesn't have to sing; it's the one night of the week. [TF] Can you talk...we can have Grandpa's
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story. We can begin--the two of you together from the first
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time you met. But can you tell me about music. We've heard your life
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and your growing up, and how Christianity and
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music were both very, very important to you. Can you talk about how--what you meant by you'd
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never heard music like that before, a Christian quartet. What about it was so electric? [JF] It had more
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modern chords. It wasn't the staid music of the hymn.
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And it was much more
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musical and..what is I want to say. That's bad to say. It flowed
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like modern music. Like modern worldy music,
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dance music. [TF] Cole Porter and the show tunes or the... [JF] Right. Absolutely. [AF] The harmonies were superior to anything she had heard. [JF] Well, of course, they
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were different and the one who likes the strong hymn would not say it was superir. They
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would not like it. It was "shall we dance". You know. Really was. [TF] So it was a sacred version of
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popular music. [JF] Yeah, it was. And I just had never heard it. I didn't rebel against it or anything. [TF] What was
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it like? [JF] It was like 3/4 music instead of 4/4. [TF] Oh, like music you could dance to. [AF] It had a waltz rythmn to it. [TB] Do you want to sing one of the tunes? Can you sing one of the tunes, what it was like--this quartet? Did any come to mind? [JF] Alan,
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A
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you know what comes to mind? [AF] "This world is not my home, I'm just a passing through. My treasures are laid up, somewhere beyond the blue. The angels beckon me from heaven's open door. And I can't feel at home in this world anymore. Oh, Lord you know, I have no friend like you. My treasures are laid up, somewhere beyond the blue. THe angels beckon me from heaven's open door. And I can't feel at home in this world anymore.
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[JF] And I had never heard that kind of music. you know. [TF} Older gospel music. It has a lighter, popular... [JF] Oh, you could dance to it; it's 3/4 time [AF] But remember
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that prior to that, you would have had, "Rock of Ages, cleft for me." or "What a Friend we have in Jesus." There's nothing... [JF] It's 3/4 time. [TF] It's very much in the context of the church as you imagined it
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[AF] You're
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moving from you're moving
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from an era when there used to sing the psalms almost in a monotone, in your monk era. Then they moved it up to this. Thenthey
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moved to the
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hymns. The hymns came in from about 1877 to 1920
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something. This music came in around the 30s and existed right 'til about the 80s. [JF] And really
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it was Crawfords that brought it to the attention of the Christian world. [AF] That's
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right. [JF] And they published the first books with that kind of music. [TF] OK, we'll pick up with them; that will be very,
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very important. The Crawford name is all over all your documents.
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You can tell. OK. Can we turn to you, Grandpa?
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You can tell us your full name and your date and place of birth. Can we have a break
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first? [JF] Oh 'cause I want to make a milkshake. [AF] I'd like to have a cup of coffee or something. [JF] Knock on her door all night, [TF] S
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o that's what that was? You passed over that very quickly. That she was
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adolescent, and she was pretty, apparently, attractive. [JF] No, listen. She fell
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on the stove... [AF] You told him that. [JF] She had this terrible scar that
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never seemed to bother the boyfriends. I've seen her with six guys around her--pictures. [TF] And so
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when you said then the men would knock at night, you meant that they'd be coming home from bars and they'd be drunk and they
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knew she was alone in the house.
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[AF] How many years, Jane, did that happen? How many years was she left alone with those fellas coming? [JF] I imagine about four. [AF] Really? [JF] because her brother left her alone, he left and went to New York and went in the army. [TF] I
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mean any good father would at least leave her two shotguns with lots of shells. [JF] Yeah, and he
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just walked away. Bought her a dress for the winter and put food in the house and that was it. [TF] Good grief! Talk about traumtizing! [JF]
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I never saw him until I was
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probably twelve. She went to visit him and took me with her. He just
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became very strange after going deaf (?) [AF] He actually was an employee of a brokerage firm called Sells and Company. [JF] That's my uncle. Not my grandfather. [AF] Your uncle, Jane, was
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employed
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by Sells and Company which is a brokerage firm in New York. [JF] I
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have to tell you that he belonged to the Lindbergh club.
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And you could only belong to it if you had done something very big
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and significant in the war. He never told.. [AF] So you never did find out what that was, though. [TF] This
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is your uncle or your father .. [JF] My mother's brother. [TF] Oh, your uncle. [JF] My mother's brother. So
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he was very smart, just like she was. [TF] So
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there were a lot of brains floating around. I mean it's...it's
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interesting...on the Woods side. [JF] Oh
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yeah. On Tarbell was her name. And
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my dad was very ordinary. My dad was very ordinary. My grandfather was
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very, oh, you know he held a good job for being in a town like that. And my grandmother had
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to be pretty smart. I don't know I thing about my grandmother's family. [TF] Do
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you think that you're...sounds like your mom was a bit of a tomato. Like she was a bit of a... Did
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he look to her as like...like did
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she... Seems like he provided some security because he had a good family. And that she
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provided, she was a little more sophisticated. [JF] Intelligent. [AF] You got it right exactly. [TF] And
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there's a tradeoff with that though. I just got married so I realize how this. [AF] That's exactly true. [TF] Kristen has
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a certain appeal to me of things that have been this sort of ... She's just .
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There are always these sort of missing pieces in our experience in life and
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so it's interesting as you share this that your mother is emerging, her line of the
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family. Is emerging as a real.. her story is a real influence. It sounds like
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it's coming out. [JF] But very quiet. She never made in, she never came
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in and made a storm. Nobody would ever... [AF] You have to remember that a
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person's roots don't necesarily inhibit their social
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and intellectual growth. She just
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simply, when she went to school--normal school--she just blossomed as an
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individual. [JA] They said she had a wonderful mother, wonderful mother. And why she ever married the man... Well, she didn't know he was a hermit when she married him. He couldn't handle her death, so he just left his kids.
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[TF] Were your parents both mild-mannered, or was
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your mother strong and your father... [JF] Oh, no, they were both mild.
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And when I wanted to go to the movies, she said, "I don't want you to go. But if you want to go, you may." And I walked out the door and went. Did you enjoy the movie? No, I miserable the whole
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time. [AF] Because that movie probably
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represented the atmosphere that you
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are searching for in your understanding of what the world was like. [TF] The world as we
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look back and as historians look back, the world changed a lot after WW I.
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Worldliness in a new form really became dominant in what we call the modern world.
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[AF] And the earlier part was Victorian! [JF] But you realize how wise she was. She said, "Yes, you may go. I don't want you to go, but you may go." I remember walking out that door that night. Did you enjoy your time? said my dad. No, I didn't! [TF] You don't remember what movie you saw?
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I watch movies from 30s all the time. [JF] I'm sure that was one. And it wasn't a bad movie. I was in a place with all / not-Christians. A turning point for me. Because she let me go. [AF} When I was a
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quartet member, was an era where
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even secularly, quartets were an important part of
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the musical landscape. Arthur Godfrey. who
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was the primary entertainer
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like Regis is today, Arthur Godfrey was in that generation. He featured a male quartet on
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his program. [TF] Radio program? [JF] and a girls' trio. [AF] Oh, yes. TV was not in yet.
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And what I'm trying to say without being immodest is that our quartet religiously was
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as beautiful a quartet .. I can play you, I have recordings ... [TF] as a secular... [AF] as any secular quartet. Our
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quartet, I think, from a musically smooth standpoint was more
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effective than the Old Fashioned Revival Hour quartet,
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which was the number one understood quartet. [TF] That was a hugely popular show. [JF] They sang on it in California [TF] You did? [AF] Oh, yeah, we went to Fuller's. We went to Fuller's and sang for him. [TF] OK, we'll get to that.
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[AF] Oh man; OK,
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if you want to. [TF] Well.
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If we can transition to your upbringing. The world of your father and then the world of your mother. W
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hen you're ready, we can pause. [AF] I can I
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can talk and eat. I just want to make sure I got it.
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OK. [JF] His mother did not accept
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me. Didn't like me, would not let me play their
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piano. I never played, she never heard me, nor his older sister.
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Till I played for his brother's funeral. Then in her will, I was able to play for her funeral. [AF] My
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family was
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somewhat elitist. [JF] Just his mother, his mother
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particularly accepted me.
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But his oldest sister and his mother. [TF] But they were Connecticut... [JF] They
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were Brooklyn! He was born in Brooklyn. [TB] I'm so glad we're doing
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this. [AF] Well, you've got a lot to learn about me. Are you recording now? [JF] No. [TB] Yes, I'm recording. [AF] Well, what do you
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want to know? [TB] Well.
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Let's start with your own name.
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And then. The place. Of your birth. And that the. OK I'm not untimely floors
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I've got to tell you my name from my mother's maiden name. I
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am the child of Philip Jones Forbes who had five brothers.
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And they all lived in the New York City so I was born in Brooklyn New York.
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And he don't live in East nineteenth Street in New York City. New York.
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Because my father was in business in books. How did your. Can you tell
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me a little about your father and his the world he drove my father
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came from a family. In New York City. My
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my great great grandfather was a. One of the pers librarians of the city of New York. York
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Public Library. My father.
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My father's father my grandfather died. When my
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father was fourteen. And as a result of that he and his brothers that were
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old enough. Had to go to work. So my father. For two years it
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became a rare form of the flexors story of pharmacy company.
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And that was the start of his career. He began to be
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incredibly. At fourteen years of age. And he retired at fifty.
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He worked for thirty six years. And you know a lot worse. He was rude to look Jay
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for us. And he was retired his many years as he worked.
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Because he died. In eighty six. So we had thirty six years of. Well I mean and thirty six
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years of retirement. And his main business. Was business. OK. His
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business at the time of my birth. He was employed by the table.
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Manufacturing Company. Which was a company that manufactured the box.
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The metal box that goes around wooden boxes.
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That was located on Columbia Heights in Brooklyn New York. And he
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was the. He was the vice president will learn most of the anyone. Retired
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my father told. This. So his your father's family. Were New Yorkers. Through
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and through. That's right. The entire family. As far as going back to
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seventy ninety never moved out of the New York City area.
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All of them and their mother was from New Jersey. And we haven't talked about a lot of
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the OK. So your father. He was but born with a ninety year
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old like father with more than eight hundred seventy seven. It's forty five years of
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age when I was bored. OK OK
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And. Did he have. So he started working at a young age so he had to have an extended G.
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cation you know he was and he went as far as I think. Eighth grade. Would that be
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right. Anyhow. The end of his education he became so
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corrupt. He was a regular. Very avid reader. He was
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self-taught. In fridge. He understood French. Could read French they were gifted
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intellectually. When he was applied. And I'm sure he was
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intellectually smart to do what was so. What was his
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family like he grew up with your father was like what was ascetic. As I don't know a great deal about.
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Family but I don't know the names of some of the relatives his mother's
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name but I think it was first set up. But I don't know. As I say is probably
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were they a wealthy threatening. Or when they would you describe him as upper middle class or. Middle class I would say
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the middle class and the higher. Up and he worked for a nice. You know a
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few original guy work in the library you could see it there. There were that kind of you know I don't
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know whether they were crude smooth. Or what they were really though my father is very. I don't know.
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My father's brothers. Some of the work of the General Electric Company Some of them
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were breakers. So we were. You know middle class.
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Did they have Was your father didn't have an extended
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vacation He was self-taught. What is it you said he was interested in education absolutely.
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And it was your father's family. Educated. Even though. You do not
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know that or if my father was forty five of
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those were many of his you know that is simply. We're still alive.
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But. That one's for. That's OK. I don't know I know I
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have all know what you have you know your own knowledge of the world very very leisurely but are
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also did your father. As you know.
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Growing up. Did he now. OK.
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But what can the group or upper middle class. I was raised in the upper middle class. Ever.
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OK. How did your father meet your mother. What's her name and when was she born.
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Her body was Mary Ellen can only marry a little.
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If they
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were a little bitty family in the Elizabeth New Jersey.
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Shoot stuff. Give me a chance. Did they didn't like the way I talk just to
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reiterate your mother's family. Was an elite
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family and. In Elizabeth New Jersey. Right now he can we break
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that down a little bit. Education with many Sheen. Or all I know is that.
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What it was they were very conscious of their
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social position. That's about all I know about Will
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who would want a mother's brother. All of that will
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reward reach shock. In Elizabeth New Jersey
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which. Continue to exist until the time of his death.
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But it is a good. The. Elizabeth. Of that era. Was entirely different
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from the Elizabeth and it was a socially acceptable
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family. That's all I know. OK.
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OK. Your mother is.
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This is your mother. OK.
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Right now. So they were. Upper middle class and it
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was the heart was a place to live. It was the main line. And
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I didn't know how my mother and my father. Got together I have no idea
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and. Again there was. There were a few decades and. I'm assuming who they were together a
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long time. OK. They were married in one nine hundred thirteen.
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OK. Nine years before. So that's thirteen and twenty three.
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My father was thirty six when he very kind of
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happens right there he did get married. So.
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Now can you tell me about the world that you grew up in and you be looking around and what you saw was
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your first memories you're simply taking time
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to meet. We did your mother have any and you were there just. Oh
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you know he's your where my family for generations.
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Were Promised of that because it was probably the
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little work. If this couple try to not let work. Visible church
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by church meaning bells and smiles. I guess that's what you
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must less formal. Is less and you didn't call their. Minister or priest.
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They would just sort of the side of him. In the
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frame of reference up there that was your father. Tomorrow is active
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in Europe as a low church. To about a year. He sang
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mostly. Tenor voice. He was able to sing until at my age. You use it is that
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he's still singing at the little church. Beautiful to other boys in Europe and
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other books. And my mother had a lovely support of boys. They sang together. In the
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house. We had a piano in the in the parlor.
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And we would gather as a family around look around with the piano and say.
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As a family. OK. OK. So you were born in Brooklyn.
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And at age six. My father retired from business. In the T.V. twenty
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eight year before the crash
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they were just a farm. Five miles north of Denver.
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Another fifty six acres that up to two acres a fifteen
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Roussel farmhouse with no electricity
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and no toilet facilities an internal trial of the facility. And
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when we got there. We have five or one of those facilities. To our house.
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My father arranged to have electricity during the Franklin
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Roosevelt era the there was an electric co. Lecture.
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But. Gratian. OK. Came about by an arc. Rocks.
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Area got. Serviced by that. So when you were born in Brooklyn deep you lived in Berkeley very
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long. Six years. So I was six years old when we moved
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in nineteen twenty eight to ten dark and I remember very little about it.
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Although I do remember. The house. I remember waiting on
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the arm of the seat by the window to see. Willing
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for my father come home. And he always would have triplets. Chile
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got in his side pocket. And I would run to the door and put my finger
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in his pocket. And you've got to chip. Remember that it was you. I went to kindergarten
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there and. I don't remember the location of it.
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But I do remember one of the students was a little it was a little
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asian boy. And be ready to stand is that I got a bright guy. And that
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registered in me so I'm out of that's the only memory I had of that and I also regard Burke.
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That I'm the main street. You know we dipped on the side street. And on the latest
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street it was called Ocean Avenue the Windsor gasoline station. And it exploded.
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And there was a terrible fire in there. And I remember that. So you
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siblings. Can you just remind us who they are OK I have. I have four
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siblings you were the five children here youngest Yeah I was your best and we went up in
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stages of two years. And I had three sisters about me and my
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brother was the oldest. He was eight years older than I was and why sisters were two
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four and six years older than our They're a little girl about
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ten don't we grew up very amicably as a family we each other little group of girls
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to all those her daughters. Share their bedroom. And
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my younger sister. Had our own rooms. Was a big problem.
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So we have a. But it was a very quiet and very the don't like your
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childhood. So at this point your father had. When
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he retired nice and twenty. He saved all that money. Yes. I don't know how much.
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The crash affected him alone I do know that he had
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securities. Even after the crash. That I do know about how much I do not know. I
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know that you had enough to send my daughter my. My sister's My crew of the sisters.
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Took two years of them our college and my brother went.
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Forty years to Amherst College and graduated from Amherst College.
speaker
But it was rather. But the money ran out. By the end
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of the deed to go this is going to be yours to O'Mara
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and. Now. Your parents. Sang and. They were
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music oh. They can you tell us. Well.
speaker
Do you want to elaborate on that. You know. They just simply love music my
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father was self-taught or I don't know whether he took lessons or not but they played. Rather
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complicated. Piano music I remember seeing the sheet music
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that they read from when they played and they played piano duets. And I hope.
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They were performers. That they enjoy. But I knew my parents were in the social
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circle in Brooklyn because I know they were to bridge parties. And
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entertained. At our house but I don't remember and we had lived under ten minutes but I do know that they were very much
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involved. And it affected my mother when we were there when they were at a
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farm she didn't have the social life. Most of the people around her.
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She felt. No those were social order and. None of our neighbors.
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Their music that they play at home. Was it like
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classical and popular. So. OK. Among religious non-related
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xcept. I remember we all learned. Whispering Hope. And we used to sing in the
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family. Which is a Christian so you know that.
speaker
So what did. Church mean to them they were. His companions
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and dad very strictly. Stripping a Sunday. Situation to
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not know it will be dominated by a
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church night. Church was like oh so part of
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the social order. What kind of sermons do you remember
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hearing growing up. So what was the sermons what was dealt. What was the
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content of the religious I misremember none of them. Love.
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I don't remember any. Summer. So the earth. I don't know that. When I was
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when the Congress when I was in my order teens. They wanted me to join the Episcopal choir
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in Dayton very deliberately with the town of about twenty five thousand or so
speaker
and it was the St James. Episcopal Church and took me down there and I didn't know enough to be
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accepted. I didn't know enough. Musically. I didn't know the difference between an
speaker
afternoon that. People out or whatever and they didn't accept me to
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be in the choir. Of their political church but I said it was a culturally and
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musically very sophisticated. Your sophisticated Yes. I would say so
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but it didn't play to reduce the religious things.
speaker
So. Can you tell me about what was life like for you.
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Who who inspired you as a young person. A five ten twelve fifteen
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sixteen. What what what were your formative events or what
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who is fired who are your whole model to do you like the time. He was yes.
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What did you look like up to your parents who are not like
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my uncle. My mother's sister. Her husband.
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Which was my OK. Oh Harry. Was an executive. In the General Electric
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Company in Bridgeport. Which is about forty to fifty miles from downtown Berkeley
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and they were regular to come run some months. Perhaps were
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and spend Sunday. With us and I would sit for
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hours listening to my father and my uncle discuss business.
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Discuss all kinds of things that are right. Acquired a lot of the knowledge that way. And I
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don't know. My role model for his business and what else today discuss this work.
speaker
Basically business. Basically business. They
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discuss politics but I know. My father was an avid Republican
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and active Republican but never took part in any office there. But he had
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strong opinions. Negatively about. Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And the whole
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system there and. He did not participate in
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local problem that I know of but he often wrote articles
speaker
on national issues. And so do the New York Times. As
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an op ed. Did he ever have anything published or many of them published
speaker
work. OK OK. What about these conversations
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between your father and your uncle. About business. How corporations and shooting
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banks and. What down the going is on this right. What interested you got a lot of Pasadena. If you.
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They would discuss the basic principles of business. All I
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know is that what I know about business I must absorb from
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to a great extent. From those the news of those conversations that's all of it. OK. What.
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What was appealing what what what did you see. Remember we're trying to do. You
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better have a career. Of instilling. And thousands of people. Through the radio.
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And having. Having vision. Something. Was there something that you saw.
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That was bigger than anything you want to hear that. Began to shake your
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body. Wrote. What was to simulate what about talking about business
speaker
appeal to heart. You must remember that basically our group was
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musical Also I sang in the glee club at high school. I have formed my
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own worked out in my senior year of high school I had my own quartet and I
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say going to Germany to be sure with medical school.
speaker
Because of the area's single
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society. And I learned from a fellow. So
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you're in the high school because well for me a job. To char out for a
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job a new journals a new society. A new much senior junior and senior years.
speaker
In high school. I was starting up that German society that's quite. That's quite
speaker
a story. Was. Do you think. Looking back
speaker
that maybe some of the appeal of these conversations about business
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men. Was it. That an issue taken to be an entrepreneur to talk about starting your own
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Was it reaching an audience there's the business world the world that your parents describe. Is a
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very proud of the huge for all of its New York City's enormous markets its audience its.
speaker
It's very very public. But
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do you think that some of your. You know what I'm saying is relative to the
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market through the buffalo Christian Center. It gave me enough of a basis of business
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understanding that I could manage. The kind of budget that we had in Buffalo.
speaker
And OK Likewise. It was. Instrumental in some of the choices that I made a
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big concern to look purchases in a million. At that you bought world courtships other.
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OK because that's another good point is that a huge part of the boat owners and Saturn has Advantage business. Fund
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raising. And then in history. Mistranscribed. Aspect. So.
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Do you saying that on some level. One of your formative childhood experiences
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that. Business was the culture. Iraq and that's right. And there was a certain.
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Allure. To the connections between. The fruits of business the
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excitement of it being the actually and then all the machinery that. Talking about interest rates
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your ground roads or unemployment rates or government policy was all sort of
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connected to some kind of a larger. In fact your purpose in this
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part of the business you know. No I don't think my father had an E.U. envisions me to become
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a business man. Well we're exploring what. What was appealing about these conversations he
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heard between your character that. Just that it was an area that I wasn't getting from my
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normal education. In high school. This was an addition to what I was
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learning that I am going to
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move to the. The other part you know you can't just
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say this was wrong because I was interested in the entertainment field.
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I was intrigued and interested in was. Force field. I wanted to get to this but I felt
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that before we move to those I did want to see if we could get a better grasp on exactly what was appealing
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about business. Other than that it was appealing. Just the other
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was part of the larger world and I was there quickly myself to be a part of the larger OK.
speaker
OK. It was entry into a project recaps a block from where I'm fifteen
speaker
sixteen years of age. OK What else. When
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you look at you you were. Formative experience what else caught your attention besides. He's got
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him conversations. Rough number one is when I was
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involved with the neighbor boys and in base four we had our own
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skating party. I was developing. Sports interests. OK.
speaker
Can we talk about that for a little bit. Sure. What did you enjoy. What did you like about sports so it's not taken
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for granted were talking earlier became a New York Yankee fan. And
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Lou Gehrig was one of my heroes and
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some days I would go down with high school friends of mine. And visit
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Yankee Stadium and. We would go down a little bit train to New York
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City. And we would. First of all. Stop at a penny arcade
speaker
and. Spencer pennies. At the penny arcade. And then we would go up to one hundred
speaker
sixty first three and. Go to Yankee Stadium and. We would get there early
speaker
enough to watch a batting practice the warden. Real and return. On the train.
speaker
So no I don't know the question may seem obvious but I still want to ask
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you were. What was the appeal as you look back. Well.
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What was so trance. What was so powerful about this experience for you and
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your friends are for you. I thought it was the goal is to that question.
speaker
Why did you like to do this so much. Because it was part of me. That
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are already there I've had interest in life. But what do you think it was connecting with
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it another big arena is the drama and excitement of a sports competition
speaker
modelled on just the ordinary life that sort of all but it seemed ordinary to you but.
speaker
Looking from my vantage point. There are interesting parallels between both the business program
speaker
described is a big arena. And then we have another big arena. With sports. And so what.
speaker
It is. It is but I would suspect that you're in London of artists and lovers. I
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would have to run a business sometime. I would have to do when I was in high school.
speaker
I was interested in literature I was a new school paper. And I wrote
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editorials. I was ded Tauriel editor of our national paper.
speaker
So when I was interested in what was going on in the business world of Denver which was the.
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Having industry of the world. Was located. OK I'm beginning
speaker
to see that there is a common theme that you as a young man. Had a strong
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desire to to observe and participate in. Pretty sizeable
speaker
arenas. Absolutely whatever the big time. We have a shift in the time of Jesus it was the Roman Empire
speaker
time. OK. Then it was then. For you it was. New York City it's the Yankees
speaker
it's this letter let me explain to you one time I got struck fever
speaker
and. Because of that one complained about a room with the shades down. Because that's what they were you
speaker
took care of ordinary time I mean better for the well.
speaker
Peter depression. Don't let the depression Big Jim and I don't want those things on the
speaker
wall. So that I was interested in what was going on in the world. Even though you
speaker
know I was not part of it yet. I was equating myself with it
speaker
and. One of the big incidences of modern life was. The new number.
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Baby. OK. And as a young child
speaker
that affected. Well you know your father Podio a body like this
speaker
affected. Entire generation then I grew up and I'm getting out. I would lie in my
speaker
bed at night and worry about whether a kidnapper was going to come and get me.
speaker
And that was very important and. It was a
speaker
program on Radio what that target. Call. Tiring.
speaker
And. I would listen to that. As my parents would have an arm down
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stairs. I would listen through the registers your book title markers
speaker
on and I would that it was a new suite type of program. And
speaker
I would listen carefully to that to get what was going on in the world. OK.
speaker
So being a player shaping public. World as
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it were was appealing to us from early on whether it be.
speaker
Music and starting a glee club in your high school whether. Be Starting sports you know.
speaker
Seeing with the Yankees or doing it and seeing that. That larger
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and exciting the adventure. That. And then coming back home or. You know and
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playing sports you're so you're so are there any other. When you think of
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formative experiences are out there. I think the other interest. My other interest was music or
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you know that I was interested in music and entertainment editor David Rigby.
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That was very or. Was always
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involved in dressing up and doing well performing
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you know. Where did this. Well you know for Thanksgiving I mean for your
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family holiday. You know. The neighborhood out. Events neighborhood events Yeah. And
speaker
we had quotes white for a lot of clothes for friends that we have a baseball
speaker
team to follow us played professionally. But we were interested in
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sports to very normal childhood sports but entertainment can you tell me
speaker
more about. Did you have. Radio shows other very high Listen diver God loves
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to listen are not he telling her God Chris and I know your heart. Arthur Godfrey.
speaker
Yes. Who is he. He was there was he was the. He
speaker
would like to say he's like the Regis Philbin of that era. And
speaker
everybody innocent or Survivor. And he had these series on the glorified
speaker
override it program was a variety program. And that's really important because that interested me
speaker
that he could produce episode or program. And the likeness into the
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major bulbs and which are are and of course that's what triggered a real event like
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with that. Well that was like Mark and I you know it is today
speaker
it was never to the program or ever should come and he did singers. Less entertaining
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or kind of that they capture it and use it on those. And they would try out on an average or
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hour and professional people would listen to that program. And get
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offered jobs to people that not only Arthur Godfrey. And then my senior
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in high school I was out of that I was going to try out for the worst and mature
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or. Did you. Yes I did. The day before I was converted.
speaker
And you. OK. So just a chronology.
speaker
So you went to high school. And then very
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and when I first see it. My first six four
speaker
grade. My first work raise. Sixth grade. Were you know we school.
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Within a mile of my house. Then I went to middle school
speaker
bus would pick me up and take me to ten very for the seventh and eighth grades.
speaker
And then I went to the don't murder. School for four years
speaker
and. Your curriculum was a college preparatory classical. Classical
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music really. You studied Latin. I studied Latin for. He studied for American English
speaker
prose and poetry. That's right. And then rhythmic mad the rabbit is really ancient
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history. He's in history and he anything that inspired you. From your school
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studies. Well I was forwarded from the from the very
speaker
beginning I wrote quote trip for training camp. I started my poor weather. Work.
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At fourteen. But I was not a prolific. Letter
speaker
Writer. As some. We have I know. I never became much of what a writer.
speaker
But I composed for the school various essays
speaker
and so forth. But I was deeply interested in Lucia.
speaker
Literature fascinated. You because of the style of it because it is true this experience.
speaker
Indeed I didn't. I wasn't much for Shakespeare. I wrote rogue like you know.
speaker
Or what they were with that group American lumber.
speaker
Basically But I did. I did. I had great interest in the
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poets. The eighteenth century. Poets keeps the
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bar room. I wrote a poem as well the my part was just
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it was fire and. We were Byron I call them. Writing. Did you. Can you do so
speaker
again. This with these others here. Put it all. Why did. Do you think you write.
speaker
Literature poetry and prose so much. Well I think my father. Probably
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without my knowing too much about it inspired me that he
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pushed me to be questionable in my interest.
speaker
Was he soon learned that it's important to be broad it is important to participate in
speaker
a larger cultural conversation going back to Greece in Romans or. What was the.
speaker
We think the Dr. I think it was just a simulation of World of the. Just because
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just because it's there it will come to you because it's important to change your world
speaker
it does right if you want if you're going to be a participant in this world you've got to understand the
speaker
sex riots were
speaker
actually curricular activities he just gave a survey so you are above this force was for fun.
speaker
Yes. But you weren't on he sports teams. You know I tried out for the. Baseball team and I
speaker
screw up and wasn't good enough. OK. But music you were you
speaker
what you sang. I was active in in the in the good club. And the great publishes a men's
speaker
scene where they rise to. Anything else. But I work for
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that or. Work for that synthesis of it. They have a million
speaker
scores and I sat in the men's course. I also was a witch singing C.D.P.
speaker
which Singing Society. There was a German singing is the side of the choir or the Arian
speaker
singing society and they employed we have five dollars a week. To come
speaker
and be part of their school group. This was not a Nazi or
speaker
a German. Here it seems I just want to clarify to gird very classical you are OK.
speaker
And I did not know German. But you say now the story. My story about that is.
speaker
It's funny as could be you know as you went to the first rehearsal. And there was this big German.
speaker
Fact kind of sitting next to me. And I had never seen. What I could just see my
speaker
five dollars going out the window. Because all the words were written in German.
speaker
Elated Mulder but this big fat problems has now quit. It's a stroke ticked up
speaker
to be about battling your disability eat comes food quality I do but I'm not
speaker
sudden I'm solemn and when the eye comes or when he needs. You have known suddenly so why don't
speaker
you add two continents and they go you know very well I develop
speaker
very. As far as my talent was concerned.
speaker
I ate a little like. I can do to make all kinds of things with
speaker
the right. Culture that. So that I could be people's voices.
speaker
And so forth so. When he started. I
speaker
learned the music and sorry. And got along very well and that I acted as a sort of a
speaker
secondary waiter. When they had their refreshments after their rehearsal. So this is
speaker
three four years of high school two years probably two to two year in senior year
speaker
at the same time I was a someone who was in the Methodist church
speaker
and don't paid so after five dollars really didn't play
speaker
piano you didn't play the trumpet where net. And you know playing. I had no
speaker
dangerous connections at all in Denver. You were not I mean usually though. Musically it
speaker
was it was strictly. Eighty eight minute. A member of their choir.
speaker
Because they had no terrors in their choir and I became the only tender in their fire. OK
speaker
And I worked at that for about a year in act two years. OK so.
speaker
OK so. Did you also saying in the Episcopal Church.
speaker
No no. OK. Now. Did you go to church on a regular
speaker
basis. You know you did your parents did not. Not only no
speaker
no not on the regular basis. We went to Christmas and Easter and a few of the
speaker
Tartars during the year but OK. We were not regular church. OK even though your
speaker
family at other times sure right were they were here is this a religious age that the British
speaker
were the sort of a church was a sort of a part of the
speaker
general pattern of life you don't do it your time. Now.
speaker
What. Nineteen thirty nine or nineteen. They're denied. They're going to graduate from high
speaker
school. Yes. And you know what I was going to dreaded in
speaker
the last. In February. Of my last year in high
speaker
school. OK. Can you tell me before your conversion sounds like a big experience was an addition for
speaker
this amateur with his invalid train trip to New York City. And you went.
speaker
Yes. Can you tell me more about the show and then. Your audition how it went. OK.
speaker
And then your version. Yes. I can. But let
speaker
me tell you one of the things before that. My relationship to the young people
speaker
in the Methodist Church. Through the choir the reserve for young people in the
speaker
choir. And I became involved with the social life of that.
speaker
But Methodist Church. I've. My girlfriend and I just went to the
speaker
Methodist Church. And that's how I got it. But who
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were going to. That for. But now as far as the. I have to write a note or
speaker
asking for personal with the measurable it was an adventure Oh
speaker
OK. That's what it was major major at work but it was
speaker
I see like the stereotypical W E S P O D S. And he
speaker
was a. He was a radio. So I heard
speaker
and what I had to write a letter. As I recall that. I have some of that material.
speaker
In my memoir. So you can.
speaker
So much to tell. So I went to New York City as
speaker
I remembered and. Went to the Roxy theater.
speaker
That's where it was held in New York City in the Rocky theater.
speaker
They told me. They said come back in two weeks. Have your
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fight over the vision. And we will find a place for you on the program. OK
speaker
so you had preliminary in here. And it was not my when they were here. Or. No no it was
speaker
it was. Many people were trying out the same time. When the fire one
speaker
West. Part of spot of the program for you so he just went in her room somebody. Committee cities
speaker
are saying. Are Exactly. I saying Tom that was.
speaker
Was a secular Some of us are a simple thing but they're
speaker
obviously had. So that
speaker
that's what they said and we're trying to get him back home.
speaker
The next day. The very next day. It was a Saturday night. The very next
speaker
day the advantage of the six services that were held for the entire week prior
speaker
to that. With all the baggage of those. By the name of. Well her. MAY NOT KNOW
speaker
WHO him self. Was a performer on Broadway performers conversion
speaker
and. He was the one who write it up. Clearly we much like.
speaker
And I had to listen to him. Progress. On the Sunday after my interview
speaker
with. Major part was and he told about how he
speaker
had no satisfaction from his career and more where
speaker
he became a lush and. He got into Chicago and was
speaker
struck. And a Christian. NURSE. Led him to Christ. His revival
speaker
wasn't in very good writing very in that Methodist Church. For a week and I never went
speaker
to the other the other meetings. And I was the only one and you heard
speaker
this one. Talk. Run twelve. Twice. Morning at night and then.
speaker
Like I was converted. Because he told
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how useless. All of that. To performing like was and I
speaker
do that I was when I had written that I would pass a bill in who I would come up with the
speaker
same conclusion. And what he preached the gospel. And I had. They were all ready to
speaker
listen to the cause or not care for about a year. And I
speaker
had been rather certain that the well known people of that church took me to
speaker
a special meeting. And I never really heard the Gospel preached.

In collections

Details

Title: Alan T. Forbes oral history, 2010, side 2.
Description: Alan T. Forbes and Jane Forbes in conversation with their grandson Tyler Flynn, Jr., about their life and work in the Buffalo Christian Center. Alan T. Forbes was a Baptist minister in Buffalo, N.Y., longtime director of the Buffalo Christian Center. He was born November 28, 1922, and married Letha Jane Woods on May 23, 1943. Forbes was ordained by an independent group of Western New York Baptist ministers in 1948 and became the first full-time director of the Youthtime Evangelism Fellowship at the Buffalo Christian Center. Forbes was active in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, participated in Billy Graham's crusades, hosted a radio program on WDCX "Good News at Noon," and helped organize a "baseball chapel" featuring members of the Toronto Blue Jays. He retired in 1992 and died in 2010.
Creator: Forbes, Alan T., 1922-2010. (interviewee)
Forbes, Letha Jane. (interviewee)
Flynn, Tyler, Jr. (interviewer)
Date: 2010
Type of resource: sound recording-nonmusical
Genre: oral histories
interviews
sound recordings
Form: audiocassettes
Extent: 1 audio cassette, 1-7/8 ips
Language: English
Subject names: Buffalo Christian Center (Buffalo, N.Y.)
Forbes, Alan T., 1922-2010.
Geographic subjects: North and Central America--United States--Buffalo--New York--Erie
Buffalo (N.Y.)
Rights status: Contact repository for more information
Rights status: IN COPYRIGHT; http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Physical location: ARCHIVES 14-0945; Presbyterian Historical Society, Philadelphia, PA
Related item: Alan T. Forbes papers, 1950s-2010.--http://prestohost68.inmagic.com/Presto/content/Detail.aspx?ctID=Y2RiNWNk...
Identifier (local): 14-0945_forbes_2010_side2
PID (Persistent Identifier): islandora:116371