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- speakerGood evening and welcome to Night Call. The live national radio
- speakerprogram in which you ask questions of nationally known authorities. Tonight we
- speakerare very pleased to have as our guest Mrs. Lillian Brown, and our topic for discussion is
- speakerthe responsibility of television to society; and we'll meet
- speakerLillian Brown in just a moment. My name is Wes Bowen and I'm speaking from the studios of
- speakerK.S.L. in Salt Lake City. Joining me tonight on
- speakerNight Call are Basil Grimes, Des Moines, W.H.
- speakerO. Des Moines. Thank you Basil and we're very glad to welcome you to our network tonight.
- speakerAnd and also in Baltimore. Our host
- speakerin Baltimore is Don Llewellyn, I think perhaps we can restore our communication
- speakerwith him in just a moment or two. Don Llewellyn is seated in the studios of W B A L
- speakerin Baltimore. And of course when you call in
- speakertonight on our program, whether you're calling Des Moines, WHO in Des Moines or
- speakerWBAL in Baltimore or K.S.L. in Salt Lake City you will be heard
- speakerover the facilities of all three radio stations.
- speakerTonight on Night Call we're talking about the world of television and its relationship and
- speakerresponsibility to society. And I'd like especially for you to meet
- speakerMrs. Lillian Brown who was a veteran of twelve years in television. Mrs Brown is presently
- speakerdirector of radio T.V. for the George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
- speakerShe's the recipient of McCall's golden mic. award, as well as five
- speakerEmmy awards for television shows that she has produced. She is this year
- speakerPresident of the Washington chapter of the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. She is a
- speakermember of the American Women in Radio and member of the National Association of
- speakereducational broadcasters.
- speakerAnd that is the question of the responsibility of
- speakertelevision to the American public. Television has such an enormous
- speakerimpact on every aspect of our life. I'm sure,
- speakerbecause of your considerable involvement in this field, you have some very definite views.
- speakerWell, of course I'm terribly impressed with the impact of television on
- speakereveryone especially young people that are growing up.We're just beginning to find
- speakerout what this is doing to our teenagers and our college studentsc who have listened to television all their
- speakerlives. You know because it's a whole different society that they've grown up in it seems.
- speakerHaving attended these sessions of the NAB in Washington recently,
- speakerI look at this problem from the other side, the side of the commercial broadcaster
- speakerwho must make his station pay and who actually has
- speakercontrol of most of the air, you see. And then, I'm aware of
- speakerfrom the standpoint of the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences the
- speakerimportance of preserving and improving all the broadcasting that's being done and
- speakerrewarding the best people for shows that they've done. And from
- speakerthe standpoint of the University giving out as much good broadcasting, as much good
- speakerlearning, as much of the treasure house of knowledge, that's been available to us
- speakergetting this out to the public.
- speakerLillian, may I call you Lillian? Oh Indeed. Now Lillian, do you, you talk
- speakerof rewarding good shows. We hear that criticism made that
- speakergood shows fail because not enough people want to watch them, that in
- speakerfact the level of the public taste is what is being
- speakercatered
- speakerto at the moment. Well I think is very true. And, I think, this is a great problem for the F.C.C., as well as the
- speakercommercial people. They have to put on the air what the
- speakerpublic tunes to watch because that's what ratings are.
- speakerDo think the rating systems do justice to the facts? Do you think
- speakerthey accurately represent? No, I really don't think they are. And I think that the the
- speakerfact that every program director sits with the ratings written on his chair, you know,
- speakerhe pulls out from under the seat and looks at it. Sometimes they're tattooed on his chest.
- speakerI'm certain of that. It's a terrible thing for the commercial people but, on
- speakerthe other hand he still has to put on his air what people will
- speakertune to. Now the F.C.C. is of course making great attempts to control
- speakerthis and and at the same time the television stations say this is going to put them out of
- speakerbusiness. Everybody has problems and I think that one of the good
- speakerthings, for instance, that the Academy does is it tries to look at these problems from both directions
- speakerboth the commercial stations, and of course now we're getting educational
- speakerstations that are doing a lot.
- speakerAre people responsive, generally people in the advertising agencies
- speakerand other clients of television, responsive to the
- speakeridea that it is more than mere numbers of people that
- speakercounts for instance. That occupational groups mean something that is
- speakerto say that it's better to have a smaller number of people with a greater capacity
- speakerto buy watching your show?
- speakerI think there are both kinds. Look at Texaco with the opera. This is an
- speakerexample of that. And this has been on for forever. And then look at the, all the
- speakerWesterns and all these violent shows that we have. These are the ones that have the
- speakerhighest ratings, Gun Smoke for instance.
- speakerDoes Texaco though approach its sponsorship of the Metropolitan Opera
- speakeras a commercial procedure, so much
- speakeras it does the commitment to what we might call the capital city.
- speakerOr maybe with a capital "k" Kulture?
- speakerWell let's face it they take part of the sponsorship money off
- speakertheir tax voucher for philanthropy grants, isn't this true? Most of the
- speakershows like omnibus and programs like that are
- speakerpossible because the sponsor gets his money in two ways, partly from
- speakeryou know the commercial pot, but partly from a write-off on his income tax.
- speakerIs there, in your view, any validity to the suggestion that
- speakerperhaps we need a different set of rules for broadcasters to operate under in which they would
- speakerbe required to offer some of their prime time to other than
- speakerprograms of a purely commercial nature?
- speakerThey're required to offer time that is not prime time at the moment. This is
- speakertrue. And I do think that this would be a good answer to it. I think one of the
- speakerbiggest answers is that the cultural shows
- speakermust have top-flight professional production
- speakermoney behind them. For instance, you take
- speakerone of the regular soap opera type shows whether they have a thousand dollars a minute, I don't know,
- speakerwhere you take a culture show they maybe do the whole budget or for maybe one fifth that amount.
- speakerI think that the learning, the cultural shows need
- speakerbigger budgets so that they can compete with the
- speakershows that have more popular appeal.
- speakerOne more question, Lillian, before we call on our people along the line to
- speakercome in and offer a few thoughts which I want to do in just a moment and that
- speakeris we hear a good deal about violence in our
- speakertimes. Violence on the streets muggings and things of this sort and many
- speakerpeople have said that it is the influence of television on our young people and all
- speakerthe violence that they see on the screen which has contributed
- speakermaterially to this problem. Do you believe that this is in fact the case?
- speakerI think that the television information office feels that this is
- speakercertainly the case but in
- speakerthe past there's always been violence. I think we know more about it. Now
- speakerthis is an awfully hard thing to answer. There is no doubt about it that
- speakerTelevision has a fantastic impact on our children.
- speakerThere's no doubt about that for good or for ill. They watch it, they learn,
- speakerthey see things that otherwise they would never see and this affects
- speakerthem. It's a two-way sword. It educates them they know
- speakerabout the best theater. They know about opera, they know lots of things
- speakerthat they never knew before.
- speakerWe have to remember that the educative process can be a negative one though.
- speakerExactly, everything educates them,
- speakergood or bad. Every time every time we get into a discussion of this then we're
- speakertalking eventually about censorship when we talk about
- speakercontrol and this is the thing that disturbs people is the question of
- speakerfederal intervention in a, presumably,
- speakera free area of communication.
- speakerWell now the F.C.C. has another thought about control. Where they
- speakerwouldn't permit the station to own as much of their programming.
- speakerYou know where more of this would be given to the commercial people to control. I'm not certain that this
- speakeris the answer too, and certainly the F.C.C. commission is split right down the middle, at the
- speakermoment about this and the stations do not feel that this would work.
- speakerWell Lillian, we're going to take time here for all our listeners
- speakeracross the country. To call us for the next thirty minutes or so. And
- speakerwe'll hear from them exactly what their points of view are, what their questions are,
- speakerand I know you'll be happy to respond to them. I want to take,
- speakerhowever this point a short thirty seconds during
- speakerwhich we'll allow Basil in Des Moines and Don in
- speakerBaltimore, Basil Grimes and Don Lou Ellen, our hosts in those two stations
- speakerto identify the numbers which people may call and we'll
- speakerrejoin this program in thirty seconds.
- speakerThe number to call here in Salt Lake City is Elgin five four six four one.
- speakerThere are two lines which answer to this number of Elgin five four six four one. And of
- speakercourse, please, if the number continues to ring when you call
- speakerbear with us. It may be that we are answering a call in Baltimore or
- speakerin Des Moines or for that matter here in Salt Lake City. The number again to call is Elgin
- speakerfive four six four one. If you have a question to put to our guest, Mrs Brown.
- speakerAnd now we rejoin our network of three fifty thousand watt Clear Channel stations from
- speakercoast to coast WBAL in Baltimore, WHO in Des Moines, and KSL
- speakerhere in Salt Lake City with my guest here this evening. Mrs
- speakerLillian Brown director of Radio Television for George Washington University.
- speakerAnd we're very happy to welcome all our listeners coast to coast. We hope you're very
- speakerbusy dialing right now, the numbers which we've just given you. We're going to
- speakerpause for a sixty second commercial identification
- speakerand then we will get to your telephone calls. And I welcome back
- speakerto Night Call, and wherever you are; and when I
- speakersay wherever I mean of course not only in the United States but in many places
- speakerbeyond. We hope that you will call us at the numbers we've given you so
- speakerthat our guest here, Mrs. Brown, can answer your questions.
- speakerAnd now let's turn first to Don Llewellyn in Baltimore
- speakerW.B.A.L.. I believe you have a caller on the line Don.
- speakerPerfectly fine, we have a call here for you.
- speakerMrs. Brown. My name is
- speakerLyman White, I live in Miami. I was listening to the program
- speakerand heard you mention children's programs. And I've read recently that
- speakerCaptain Kangaroo is going off the air and this distresses
- speakerme as it's been one of the favorite programs of my children. And
- speakerI want to know how we can encourage programs of this kind to stay on the air and
- speakereven to get CBS to change their mind about
- speakertaking Captain Kangaroo off.
- speakerWell I'm terribly distressed to hear that. I didn't know that Captain Kangaroo was going off the air. I think it's
- speakerabsolutely one of my favorites. I think it's one of the best children's shows on the air.
- speakerI don't know if there's any tried and successful rule for
- speakerkeeping a good show on the air. I've seen so many shows go
- speakeroff the air that still should be there. I do know that it helps
- speakerto to call and to write to the networks. I know that it helps to
- speakerto put a certain amount of pressure on the sponsors. That all of us do know about
- speakervery good shows which have not been retained. I'm amazed to
- speakerhear that that particular show would go off because I should think that it would have a very
- speakergood rating. It comes at a time when there's nothing else very good for children to
- speakerwatch.
- speakerBut there are so few of children's programs actually. And I wonder
- speakerif this was, well a tendency of the commercial
- speakerstations to turn educational programs over to regular
- speakereducational stations now that there are more of them coming across the nation.
- speakerI would assume not because I don't think that the educational stations really
- speakercompete with the commercial stations for the child audience of that
- speakerage. True we're trying to do a lot of educating in the
- speakermorning. The six thirty learning hour we found to be extremely successful. But
- speakerchildren below school there's no, there isn't another show to equal
- speakerCaptain Kangaroo. I'd certainly like to speak to the CBS network myself about that one.
- speakerI hope you will.
- speakerDoes the F.C.C. say anything to the local station about
- speakerhaving to put on a certain amount of time for
- speakereducational programs. I understand they do have this restriction for
- speakerreligious broadcasting.
- speakerAll stations must fulfill a code of good standing, in
- speakerorder to stay on the air. And so all stations through the year
- speakerkeep a very careful list of every public service effort they have
- speakermade at the end of a certain time when their license comes up for renewal.
- speakerThey submit this to theF.C.C. for approval. In the past, the
- speakerF.C.C. has revoked very very few licenses. They have
- speakeradvised the stations that they must do more of this and they usually have a
- speakersort of a set formula, how much religious time the station must
- speakergive; how much public service time; and how much regular, sort of philanthropy
- speakertime the stations must give. In my case at George Washington
- speakerthe shows that I produce are all done on time which the station gives me and
- speakerwhich in turn they use on their presentations to the F.C.C. for their code.
- speakerMr. White, those have certainly been good questions that you posed to us. I would like to
- speakerask you, sir, I'm sure all of our listeners would find it extremely interesting to know where you're
- speakercalling from. Would you be good enough to tell us.
- speakerYes, I'm calling from Miami.
- speakerWell how nice of you to take the trouble Mr White. We certainly appreciate hearing
- speakerfrom you and thank you so much for your call. Thank you and thank you Mrs. Brown for answering the questions. Good
- speakerbye.
- speakerMr. White from Miami, Florida this evening on Night Call. Now Mrs. Brown
- speakerLet's see what Basil Grimes has cooking for you in Des Moines. Basil what, you have a
- speakercaller?
- speakerYes Wes I do not have a call, I would
- speakerlike, I do have two or three questions here that I would like to, to which I would like to
- speakeraddress Mrs. Brown; and you have preempted me on all three of them there so we might
- speakerreiterate some of them. First of all do you not
- speakerfeel we talk about the television as a instrument of
- speakereducation. Do you not feel that television is
- speakereducating our society one way or another regardless of
- speakerour position on them?
- speakerI do feel that education, that television is educating society.
- speakerI think that one of the great things that television can do, for instance, from the standpoint
- speakerof the university is to educate the adult public who
- speakerotherwise couldn't go on campus to learn. And I think there
- speakerare. Many many exciting ways that television
- speakercan enrich our lives. I don't think we should ever preempt any normal
- speakerschool process and I mean from Pre-school clear through the final stages of
- speakergraduate school. But I think enrichment of the public and enrichment
- speakerof the learning years. Well I guess we should say learning continues
- speakerforever shouldn't we? But I think this is one very greatest roles that Television can
- speakerserve. This poses a bit of a problem however. Do we mean now
- speakerthat television should assume the role of a teacher of morals, for instance?
- speakerA teacher of what? Of morals. Teacher of morals? Oh no I don't think you can do that. I think that all
- speakerall the, I think
- speakeryou have to... Lillian, do you do think that, excuse me, but do you think that television can escape that? One way or
- speakeranother it teaches morals, if only by default.
- speakerWell yes I think that when you say you're going to teach morality are you going to teach
- speakerpeople to be this, or to be that? To embrace certain kinds of religion or
- speakerto be shall we say be good or be bad? I think that
- speakeryou have to present all points of view. And then you have to let the
- speakerpublic decide what they're going to be. I don't think you can propagandize in other words
- speakerOh, yes. Excuse me
- speakerWes, just a moment, I have a call coming in may I leave you for just a moment? By all means.
- speakerThank you so much. And that was Basil Grimes in Des Moines. I didn't mean to take
- speakeryour, take your line there, or your question Basil, but it seems to me that
- speakerthere is an implicit moral posture if you will excuse such a
- speakerponderous phrase. Implicit in in in
- speakereverything that television does. For instance if we if we dress our
- speakercowboys in black suits and then they're bad man and their good member in the white suits. Then we
- speakeridentify, do we not, good with one situation and bad with the other?
- speakerThere is, uh, this is the age-old morality play.
- speakerWes, can I cut in again now? By all means. This question, this
- speakeris Jim Hamlet from Saint Louis, and he has a question and
- speakerhe would like to direct to Mrs Brown. Go ahead Jim.
- speakerThank you Mr. Grimes. Mrs Brown, I wanted to see how you felt about this
- speakermany of the commercials on television, I feel are not in good taste
- speakerfor family viewing. Many of these commercials tend to offend.
- speakerIt's really a two-part question that I want to ask you. I wanted to get your
- speakerviews on that part of the question and then I wanted to ask you this question. Do you feel that
- speakerawards for commercials that are in good taste
- speakerwould help to upgrade that portion of television viewing. Yes indeed I do. And a
- speakersuggestion to, to do this very thing could be made to the
- speakeracademy right now. The Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, because they've eliminated all
- speakercategories. And they accept nominations for merit.
- speakerAnd if anyone in any station, or any part of the
- speakerbroadcasting industry who is a member of any of the chapters, would
- speakernominate good commercials for these awards then this would this
- speakerwould tend to focus the attention of the public on good awards, or on good
- speakercommercials. I certainly agree with you that many commercials are extremely offensive.
- speakerAnd unfortunately they wouldn't be on the air if they didn't sell the
- speakerproduct. They probably do or they wouldn't be there. This again goes back to the level of
- speakersome of our listening public that we just can't avoid.
- speakerI see, well thank you so much Mrs. Brown. And Jim, thank you so much for calling. Bye. Well
- speakerthank you, Basil, for bringing us that call from St. Louis, I believe it was. Yes. Jim Hamlet
- speakerfrom St. Lois. It's awful quiet out there in Baltimore and I'd certainly like to see what Don Lou
- speakerEllen has for us. Don do you have a call coming in from
- speakerthe east? Uh yes we do. We have a Mr. George Smith
- speakerwho would like to raise a question to Mrs. Brown.
- speakerMrs Brown, I'm calling from Atlanta. I want to know
- speakerwhy when men are on television programs for children, they always
- speakerhave to dress up as somebody, character wise? We have always
- speakerYour other man mentioned Captain Kangaroo. You have clown
- speakercharacters. But when women are on children's programs
- speakeras hostesses or moderators.They're always teachers or mother
- speakerimages. Why can't we have just plain father images?
- speakerThat's an interesting question that I can't answer. In fact I hadn't realized that it
- speakerwas true, but it is true that the clowns and some of the various characters are the
- speakervery most successful people on the air on the children's programs. And
- speakerusually they're teachers when they're women. Um, I can't answer that.
- speakerDon't you think that's giving our children a false image of what the American male
- speakeris?
- speakerWell I don't think that the average male is a teacher. I think it's probably the role
- speakerthat they play.
- speakerthe father. No I mean. The father in the home is not a teacher?
- speakerWell, I'm thinking of a teacher in a classroom situation maybe. Oh
- speakercertainly the father at home is a teacher, in fact he, his children listen to him more
- speakerthan they do to their mother because they are not with him as much.
- speakerDon't you think in some school systems that there's a tendency now to put
- speakermen as teachers in the lower classrooms, or the lower grades.
- speakerWell I've seen one or two. And I've known these people to be very effective.
- speakerBut still, I think when one looks at the teacher image, one thinks of a
- speakerwoman.
- speakerWell I'm sure that we think of a woman, but why can't the man be effective on
- speakertelevision? And why can't we get this point across to
- speakerthe T.V. sponsors that are doing harm to our children's attitudes
- speakerWell I think that this would be a good project for you to assume.
- speakerWell how do I go about it. You can
- speakerwrite anytime you want to any program director, to any
- speakerstation, to any commercial sponsor, or to any person that you see on the air;
- speakerand your letters are read and they're heeded. Believe me the people in
- speakerthis industry like to know what the listeners think.
- speakerAlright, local stations or networks, should I try first.
- speakerFor instance if you have a certain station that you listen to the
- speakermost, why don't you just write to that one station?
- speakerAlright. I certainly will get my letter off. And get all the members of the P.T.A. to write too.
- speakerAlright that's a good
- speakerproject for a PTA. Thank you very much.
- speakerYou're welcome. Thank you for calling Mr Smith. Mr Smith from Atlanta.
- speakerAnd this is Night Call. And our guest. Mrs Lillian
- speakerBrown. We're going to pause shortly here and allow our stations a
- speakerchance to identify themselves, and things like that. May I say very quickly
- speakeragain that Night Call is the program
- speakerwhich is heard during this hour, in which you ask questions
- speakerof nationally known authorities. The live national radio program. And
- speakertonight we're very pleased to have as our guest, Mrs Lillian Brown; who
- speakeris the director of radio T.V. for George Washington University in
- speakerWashington D.C. She's responding to your questions and to your points of view
- speakerwhich you put to her on telephone numbers at W.B.A.L. in
- speakerBaltimore where our host is Don Lou Ellen. At W.H.O.
- speakerin Des Miones, where our host is Basil Grimes. And of course here in Salt Lake City
- speakerat K.S.L., and I Wes Bowen am your host here.
- speakerI should say that I can very well understand what Mr Smith was talking
- speakerabout, Lillian, when he talked about the subversion of the role of the American
- speakermale and the family. And we'll return to all of this and all that that
- speakerimplies in just a moment, here on Night Call.
