Gene Bay oral history interview, part 2.

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Mindful of the importance of saving
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of thing now you were
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because of hate when the war ended.
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Right.
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What do you remember about that period of time
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this tied to what
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you just said right.
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I remember picking
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up hitchhikers guys
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who were hitchhiking
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and I remember I remember the
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end of the war I remember the
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day I happened to be
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my aunt
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and uncle's in Baltimore.
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And I remember
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streetcars being taken off the tracks
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and people are out celebrating
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that sort of thing.
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I don't remember very much about V-J
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Day interestingly enough
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but I remember
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very very explicitly
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did that ever take the sun
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to the Baltimore Sun.
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Yes yes.
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So
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do you read the headlines about
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the atom bomb Nagasaki.
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I do I do.
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I do.
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Yeah.
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I mean did that have any
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impression other that it was
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likely to end the war.
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I think that was the main thing at that time
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probably on this young.
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Child.
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I mean how would you know much of
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that right.
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Yeah right. Yeah.
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And you prepare very much about it
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right. No.
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And so
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one of the other things I think is important
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bill is that
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I mentioned that I grew up
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not having any
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any acquaintance with black children
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African-American children
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or Jewish children.
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And even
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even into my early days of ministry
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this I'm way ahead.
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But then darling
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and even then
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my recollection is of
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Route 40 which was the main
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drag between New York
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and Washington.
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I remember stories of
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ambassadors from African
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countries being refused
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service in restaurants
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along the Route 40 in Maryland
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before the old national road.
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Right.
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And
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but you know that was a main
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road from New York to Washington
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at the time.
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And I just
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mean the schools
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for African-American children
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colored people call them
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in those days
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were you know very
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much below
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the standard of what I experienced.
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And so
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there was no there was no school integration
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until the 1960s
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so you know I
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had.
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None of that.
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Experience in
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the way of being
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out of sight out of mind mostly.
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Is that fair.
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Mostly.
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I guess I would say you
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still see dual
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facilities.
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Oh yes.
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Oh yeah the trains the train
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stations.
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Well I don't recall ever
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being on a train so I wouldn't remember
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that but I do remember the
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drinking fountains restrooms
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and
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I just I'm so thankful
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for that.
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I mean I I just remember my
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parents were very respectful
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of African-Americans
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but we had no no intercourse
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with them and.
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Do you remember the Berlin
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Airlift.
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I don't know.
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Do you ever when you first heard the term
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Cold War.
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Well I guess it would have been during the Eisenhower
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years I suppose you
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first heard that term some time between
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50 to 56.
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It goes over the terms of.
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Did you know anybody that had shot.
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I
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did not ever
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disapprove of.
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All right.
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Let me talk
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a little bit about
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Bob before we get into religion.
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This really does deal
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with religion.
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Tell me about what it was like
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to be at your house
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at Christmas.
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Christmas was a great time.
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The tree went up several
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days before Christmas
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but nothing else was done.
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So the tree was decorated.
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We always had a
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big train
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set with all the houses
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that Elberta fly American
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flyer was.
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All that was done on Christmas Eve
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by my grandfather.
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And they would be up to 4:00 in the
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morning and then we could climb out
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of bed at 6:00 and try to get them up again.
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We were not allowed.
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We were not allowed to go downstairs until
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they gave us permission to do it.
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So we'd sit at the top of the stairs
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and wonder
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what was under the tree.
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Where the trees come from
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probably was cut out of there.
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Some of our books
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I suspect
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may possibly have been purchased
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by my father in the city
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and brought down.
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But I suspect he was country
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there was
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trying to think
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oh I was going to tell you a story.
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One year I was
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about I can't remember how when exactly
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I was maybe I'm still
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believing in Santa Claus.
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I was 7 years old.
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Maybe we were
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we were eating dinner
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and
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my father had arranged
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for one of my older cousins
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to come ringing
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sleigh bells around the house
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in order to get us up to bed before
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us so that we wouldn't see sackcloth
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so that he could he could get
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an early start on the tree.
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So we're eating dinner these slave
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elves or anything outside our
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house and saying
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oh I've got a cat I'm gonna get to bed.
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No other said he's probably
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off down that you can
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finish your dinner.
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That was one year when my father
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mother got to bed that he's now our
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Christmas.
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Well you know so
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at least initially Christmas to you was more
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secular.
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It was that it was religious Yeah
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it was wasn't there was no Christmas Eve service
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you're fifty miles away.
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Right.
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But I think there was a Christmas Eve service
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in our church at that time.
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There would have been
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and so you know something
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the Sunday mornings of Advent if
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even Advent was observed.
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I can't recall that it was
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but it probably was.
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I mean there are some some fashion
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and I'm sure Christmas carols
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for some
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but with the Christmas Eve
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services were of a 1950s
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60s.
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It's later. Yeah.
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At least in that they
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the ones that make the village effect.
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Darlington had never had a Christmas Eve
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service until I went there.
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Sixty two
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so even even then
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they had just
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come back a little bit
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just to see
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Easter
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Easter
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in terms of the family was
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always an important meal of course
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meal time with
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with other family.
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But certainly
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I'm going to worship
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and occasionally
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a sunrise service if I was visiting
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one of my favorite items in Baltimore
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they would they would go to
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Memorial Stadium for sunrise
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service. Wow.
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Go there
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love people.
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Yeah.
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Well I don't recall how many people there were.
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I think there were good many people.
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It was huge. Yeah it was huge.
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But whether it was full
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or not.
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I know but I remember definitely that
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there were services
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and Memorial Stadium
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in Thanksgiving you'd be a fan.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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You could watch football on TV in
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TV football
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hunting in the morning.
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Yeah.
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The men hunted
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rabbits rabbits
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pheasants mostly rabbits.
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Did you have dogs scoring a
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we did.
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Yeah.
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And cats that were Mausers.
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Yes. Yeah
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and the bar yeah yeah
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yeah.
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What kind of dogs were they just
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just mongrels my space
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I play yeah just good old fashioned up
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there.
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Yeah yeah.
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Let's take a break.
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Just.
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Were we're
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very early religious experiences
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that shaped your life.
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I don't think so until I
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would say until high school probably
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well I'll take that back
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with Bill.
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I don't know.
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How to call this a religious experience
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but there was a
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elderly elder
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in the Bethel
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Church
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who for some reason
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or another.
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Andy Barr was his name.
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Some reason or another took me under
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his wings
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and I remember I mean he always sat
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in the front. My family sort of sat in the
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back middle
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somehow or another he got
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me to sit with him
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and Sunday after
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Sunday I would pray
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for my family
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and go sit with his elderly gentleman.
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And I don't know that was
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that was an experience of just I think
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of here's an older person
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taking interest in
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me as a boy.
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You mentioned that one time also
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you know passing your father's room in
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Washington. Pray.
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Tell me a little bit more about
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how just
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the bathroom was
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took to go to the bathroom took
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me past his his
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and my mother's bedroom
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and I just recall
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having seen him on his knees
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saying his prayers before
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going to bed.
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And neither my mother
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nor my father were overtly
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religious in.
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Mean they they weren't they didn't wear
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it on their speed they didn't
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but there was that
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and there is the fact that
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I remember every Saturday night whether he was
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going to go to church or not he was writing a check
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to pay his pledge which
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if he wasn't going my mother would take
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me off and play.
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So it was kind of things
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I remember.
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Of shifting gears
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a little bit.
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Why did you choose to start
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guys.
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Well this is a long story.
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I was a senior in high school
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and had been accepted the
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University of Maryland
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and thought I would
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pursue a degree in dairy
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husbandry and maybe combine it
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with veterinary medicine
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sort of one of my local heroes
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was a dairy farmer who was also a vet.
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Our our church
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had a vacancy
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and
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the committee brought
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in this gentleman
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to preach his candidate ating sermon.
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Church was jammed for
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Sunday school rooms were open.
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The church was full.
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This Bethel Church at that time
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was four
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or five hundred member church
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here in the country was pretty pretty good
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sized
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and
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this guy Luther Bostrom
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was his name just blew
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it.
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He didn't he didn't do well
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in the congregational meeting.
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Later
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about a third of the congregation voted not
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to call him so
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he was wise enough to
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know not to do that.
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That was about the time that I
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had begun thinking about the possibility
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of ministry
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and
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and I was beginning to say well
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if I'm going that maybe I should go to a Presbyterian
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school not go to university in Maryland
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this guy's Bible
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College of Worcester
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and said
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Well that's a Presbyterian school.
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And so I think I think this is late
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in the spring.
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I remember my father
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taking me to Worcester.
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I think it was in June
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and I met
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with the dean of man Rakete
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1955.
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And
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that's how I got to Worcester
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going to Worcester in the fall
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in the fall just a couple of months later.
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Right. You know today
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probably never ever get in
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but I did
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and
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I've.
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And then this strange next
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strange thing about this story is who
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shows up in my freshman class.
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But this guy's daughter.
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And I never I never
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ever told her about this experience
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about her.
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Her father
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being responsible for my
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began to muster at that point
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you had no.
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Did you have any
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inkling or
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knowledge of the difference between going
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to a University of Maryland
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and Wall Street in terms of the
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type of education level
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arts versus large
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state school.
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I was very naive about it
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and were
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a lot of your classmates who heard of it.
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Do they have the same day to
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thank
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all right.
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I have to outlast many
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of them did as much as I did.
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I mean you may begin to ask me about this
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but Worcester was a transformative
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experience for me.
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Absolutely transformative.
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And
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I've been grateful
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ever since.
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What was your first impression of last year
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when you looked at this
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whole buildings.
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You know Albrecht which is there
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I mean I've never seen other
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camps that looks like that like theirs.
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What did.
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What impression did it have on
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first arriving here today.
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You know I think it was positive I don't
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know that I was overwhelmed by it.
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I think my interview
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with the dean of men I don't know why
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did these men was interviewing me.
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Maybe he was the only one on campus
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at that time who knows.
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But my interview
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with him was very positive.
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I do remember that.
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And it's not
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like this was your first week like
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it was for me.
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What did you what did you take
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with you.
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I mean what was it like partying
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with your with your parents.
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Well it took me out
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and you know it took
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us close to
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typewriter didn't have a computer in those
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days obviously.
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And I was I was so late
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entering that I was
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just my housing was in
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an old
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World War II Navy
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unit
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that was like it
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was.
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No it wasn't a Quonset hut it was just
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it was just wooden
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barracks and barracks like
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with space heaters.
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And the wind would
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in the wintertime the wind would
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come right through the walls
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and it was
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an eyewitness.
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I was fortunately assigned to
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a guy that I got along
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with very well were still
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lifelong friends to this day.
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And our our
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room was right next to the junior resident
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who was a really fine
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guy and kind of took us under
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his wing. And
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so it was it was positive in
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that regard but you know I've
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kind of lost here
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where I go where I do
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thing where there are
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no other Scots
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where their traditions of things
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refreshment and things that oh yeah
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freshman run out
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sophomores came
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walks all of us hazing really.
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So that was that was a tradition wearing
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beanies was a tradition.
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Did you get to drink.
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Yeah yeah.
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Do that.
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Remembered too many of the things going.
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Well you know this is a time
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in your life that you're also
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somewhat free freer than you were
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before. I mean your parents are there
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right.
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I mean does your mother shed
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tears when
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she left. Did you.
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Did you see me like that.
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I don't recall that.
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What was your.
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You're now or you know having
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you've reached another plateau
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of sorts.
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Right. What does that mean.
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Well I think it is here
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I'm
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Henfrey although I remember being I was
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I was pretty homesick
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and told about the first Thanksgiving
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and then after that I was fine
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but this time
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I've been homesick.
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Interestingly enough we had a we had a
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an English competence
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test that all the freshmen
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the first set to take.
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And I found it.
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So I ended up having to take bonehead
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English. They called it
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about halfway through the semester.
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The teacher said to
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me you don't belong in this class.
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Well here I am.
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So I remember
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that was kind of a disappointment
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to hear.
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I'm one of the students who
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had to take bonehead English
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I don't know psychologically
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what I'd make of it.
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I mean I think
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I just think well meet some good friends
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and
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I really I really
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liked the academic life
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I mean I really I really all my
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life all the way through.
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I love what Worcester had to offer me.
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Did you have mandatory complications in
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kids mandatory chapel
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which was kind of a joke in a way.
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I mean we sang an opening him
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and then
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four days out of five it would be nothing
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religious it would be something else.
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But what we did
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and we also had required church
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attendance requirement
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so you hit him so many times about
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70 times a semester I
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think it was really good track.
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Yep you like.
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Well I think I think we had
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to sign something that said that
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we had. So it was sort of an honor system
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cheerfully didn't keep track.
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I mean it had a chapel monitor who
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kept attendance
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and said
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So
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do they have national fraternities as
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verby said no they were all local
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local fraternities
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and sororities.
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But but they were very important.
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So like they started as literary
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societies
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and I don't think so.
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I don't think so.
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Budding in our years their
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social life revolved around
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the fraternities
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and the cult sections of cult sections
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1 through 8
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and the and the sororities
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and so pretty
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much everybody pledged.
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I did went through all that.
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More more hazing
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because you're socially that's
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in your interview
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or sports
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and evolve all around
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and in the people that you
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made that people not all need to be adjudicating
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causes to where people in your
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right grew.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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And you still keep track of some of those people
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some of them I do not.
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Not so many.
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You talked about your
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other than meeting your wife
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as being transitional.
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What I can do to you my
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transition or the case forward.
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Yes it was transitional to
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you as part of this use.
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In what ways.
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Oh many ways.
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I mean it just opened me up to a world I
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didn't know existed in terms of
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me I like growing up where I
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did.
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I'm very insular
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anyways.
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And
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first of all I'm meeting
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I'm meeting Jewish students.
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I'm I'm
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involved. I'm I'm being
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stimulated by these
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amazing professors
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and meeting a few
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African-American students although there were
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very many.
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There was during that time
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and
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just just.
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I mean academically just opened
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me to worlds that
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I didn't know existed.
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And
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professors who.
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Were good scholars
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and you probably
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know Wister has this long term Pridham
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of independent study
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which Howard Lowery brought to the campus.
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So there
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is this tradition at Worcester the
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professors are going to be both
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experts in their field
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and do research but they're also going to be teachers.
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And so to have these
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amazing people who were interested
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in students
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and would take time to meet
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with us and talk
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with us and have us over
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for tea
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or
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ginger ale or whatever it was we saw
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them and the alcohol.
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Right.
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But.
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Those kinds of those kinds
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of things.
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And you said you majored in history.
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So with early history professors that you
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were going.
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River well.
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BRADY I
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Helen Kaslow
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and Bob Walker.
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I think.
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Those are the stars in my
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mind.
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Did he publish while you were there.
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Or before or since.
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You know I I I don't.
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I don't recall that they published while
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I was there I know
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and published
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and
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and Casler I'm sure published
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Mushir about Dunnam she probably did
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but I'm sure about her.
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Oh come back to that.
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Tell me about.
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Meeting your wife
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your future wife.
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Her.
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My roommate was dating her roommate
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and Jean was a cheerleader.
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So I was a year ahead
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of her. So this was my sophomore year
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and
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and my roommate
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and I presume his girlfriend
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at the time thought
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that I should get to know Gene.
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So.
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We went on a double date to a basketball
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game Worcester vs.
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overland.
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And Jean was
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cheerleading. But you know we
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went together and came back to console.
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So that's how we met.
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That was sort of an arranged
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date in a way.
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Had you noticed her before.
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I don't think so.
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And she she was a cheerleader for both football
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and basketball.
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Yeah.
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So
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obviously you were impressed
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with her.
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Yeah well it was it was the start
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of.
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Many days thereafter.
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Yeah.
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She was she was
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pretty young woman
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and
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we hit it off pretty well.
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Jared is serious about anybody before.
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Not really.
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I mean I'd have died had some
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girlfriends in high school.
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Nothing that I ever thought was going to go anywhere.
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Is this something that just basically
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happened
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or is it something the
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did you expect that she
speaker
might get married
speaker
at some point it just
speaker
happened it just happened to him.
speaker
Yeah yeah.
speaker
And we
speaker
said she was here behind me so when
speaker
I we had
speaker
we we got engaged my
speaker
senior year I guess it was
speaker
and we were
speaker
she was going to step was
speaker
and I was going to go to Princeton Seminary
speaker
and as the time got closer
speaker
with this
speaker
being a part for this year.
speaker
It was so great. So we decided we were going
speaker
to marry both of our none
speaker
of our parents.
speaker
We're very happy about that.
speaker
But we we we promise
speaker
that Jean would finish
speaker
school which.
speaker
Govern college
speaker
anyway. So we decided
speaker
to marry him.
speaker
So at what point at
speaker
what point did you know it was really serious
speaker
very early that relationship for
speaker
a little bit later.
speaker
I think later I would say probably
speaker
junior year maybe I would
speaker
be your junior year.
speaker
I thought the energy got more ear.
speaker
And so by the time that
speaker
you were ready to start
speaker
to think about what was going to happen to you not
speaker
going to be with her for the next year.
speaker
Why would your parents happy because they
speaker
fear that she would finish
speaker
or that you would go off
speaker
and do what you were going to do.
speaker
I mean they see my father die
speaker
at this time.
speaker
So it's just my father is
speaker
constantly worried about me
speaker
not putting my mind to my books.
speaker
Well I mean I guess some day
speaker
what.
speaker
And I think I think her parents
speaker
I know her parents just want
speaker
on her defection.
speaker
What's her name.
speaker
So what was the first time she took you
speaker
to her home for us.
speaker
Would have been
speaker
I think I think
speaker
it would have been Christmas
speaker
junior year probably.
speaker
You're just eager to
speaker
hear again.
speaker
We were we were pinned at that
speaker
point.
speaker
And
speaker
well I need to rethink that because
speaker
she Jane actually
speaker
came to visit me
speaker
on the farm
speaker
in the summer of
speaker
between my sophomore
speaker
and junior year
speaker
and because my father died
speaker
my junior year. So she met him.
speaker
I know that. So
speaker
I may have gone to her place.
speaker
Earlier than that
speaker
but my recollection
speaker
is I suppose families
speaker
knew that this was somewhat serious.
speaker
Why did you guys really like each.
speaker
Yeah yeah.
speaker
Yeah it was.
speaker
It was a surprise no no no
speaker
no no.
speaker
So
speaker
if we look at
speaker
you know like I hinted at this before
speaker
but when we talk in terms of
speaker
University of Maryland for instance in Worcester
speaker
liberal arts versus a large
speaker
institution of higher learning.
speaker
What advantages.
speaker
You mentioned some of that
speaker
with it. You know when you talk about the faculty
speaker
you know taking personal interest
speaker
in salons. Are there other things that
speaker
you look back to when you did hated.
speaker
I think it's something else that I read that
speaker
these two to three years older went to
speaker
Wister
speaker
you know what is it about them liberal arts
speaker
college or institution similar
speaker
and our universities.
speaker
Goes to school like the
speaker
University of Maryland
speaker
with the
speaker
value of you know you've got
speaker
really close tabs on
speaker
her.
speaker
I just think the liberal arts education
speaker
helps people to become
speaker
good citizens.
speaker
And I think it also prepares them for
speaker
a number of occupations.
speaker
I mean I've I've heard
speaker
business people many business people say
speaker
I'll take a good liberal arts educated
speaker
person I can teach them what
speaker
they need to know when they come to work for me.
speaker
But the fact that they've experienced
speaker
this broad range of
speaker
intellectual pursuits
speaker
that they've learned to think
speaker
critical thinking they've learned to write.
speaker
I mean those are some of the things
speaker
that come to mind to me.
speaker
And they've they've actually been
speaker
taught by professors not by some
speaker
teaching assistants
speaker
or something
speaker
like that. So it
speaker
has drawbacks.
speaker
Well I mean it is
speaker
the curriculum is limited.
speaker
I mean so that
speaker
history used to have this suddenly.
speaker
I don't think it still does anymore
speaker
but it used to have this relationship
speaker
with MIT where you go to Worcester for
speaker
three years and go to MIT for two.
speaker
If you were interested in engineering
speaker
and mathematics that kind of thing.
speaker
So I mean there are limits
speaker
in terms of what's what's
speaker
possible in terms being offered.
speaker
I know that
speaker
big time sports
speaker
and that's important
speaker
certainly is a difference although I
speaker
must say I have great
speaker
admiration for Division 3
speaker
and the fact that most of the student
speaker
athletes are really students.
speaker
So I'm a
speaker
I'm a yeah I'm a big supporter of
speaker
liberal arts.
speaker
Was there an opportunity for you to go
speaker
do your rock.
speaker
There probably was I mean
speaker
there were some students who
speaker
left for that
speaker
but it was nowhere near what
speaker
it is today
speaker
and nowhere near that number are able
speaker
to write and no had a head of
speaker
Worcester in India program.
speaker
They had a relationship
speaker
with India and there were a number of
speaker
students particularly some who
speaker
were religiously inclined
speaker
or thinking about seminary who would
speaker
dissipate that I didn't
speaker
I don't rumors I guess there were a few
speaker
other opportunities
speaker
but I don't think there were very many.
speaker
Did you go back home we went to the farm.
speaker
I did originally.
speaker
As I told you my father died my
speaker
junior year.
speaker
My brother initially was going
speaker
to take over and run the farm which
speaker
he did for a few months
speaker
and then decided it wasn't for him.
speaker
And so at that point
speaker
we all decided to sell the farm
speaker
and we sold the cattle
speaker
and everything we had a big sale.
speaker
So the first
speaker
year I did
speaker
go back and work on the farm
speaker
work with my brother
speaker
who was actually he was actually doing this
speaker
before my father died.
speaker
So that had to be between my sophomore
speaker
and junior year.
speaker
And then after that
speaker
I sought
speaker
and got other jobs
speaker
and are going to be
speaker
better paying your father's health
speaker
come slowly south.
speaker
Or was quick.
speaker
My father was a heavy smoker
speaker
two packs a day cigars
speaker
and he had a
speaker
massive current.
speaker
He had quit two years earlier
speaker
smoking altogether cold turkey.
speaker
But it all caught
speaker
on by him.
speaker
There was a big snowstorm
speaker
in March
speaker
and he had gone out
speaker
and shoveled snow
speaker
and
speaker
came in that night had a car
speaker
Erin was
speaker
gone.
speaker
So when we talk
speaker
in terms of who paid
speaker
for going to school
speaker
would you pay for a chunk of it.
speaker
I assume that they would pay for the
speaker
rest.
speaker
Family pay for it until my father died
speaker
and then then
speaker
immediately I got a job
speaker
that was your waiting tables.
speaker
I was a junior resident which paid
speaker
for my
speaker
I'd already been a junior resident which paid
speaker
for my housing part of the board
speaker
right now.
speaker
And then I had
speaker
a I worked I
speaker
had a laundry business I collected
speaker
laundry and took it down to
speaker
the laundry
speaker
and then delivered.
speaker
And that's she
speaker
inherited or came up
speaker
with yourself.
speaker
I came. Well it was a
speaker
it was an opportunity I think to whoever
speaker
had that business before I graduated.
speaker
And I was able to get so
speaker
I did that for a couple of years.
speaker
And
speaker
you know I think Geez those days
speaker
flustered rose.
speaker
I mean I think I think my
speaker
comprehensive fee it was it was
speaker
only four or five thousand dollars a year.
speaker
Those days you
speaker
even in those days it was cheap compared
speaker
to what it is now. Right.
speaker
Exactly.
speaker
That's after inflation.
speaker
Right. Heavy loss of inflation.
speaker
OK.
speaker
Of
speaker
at this point what point
speaker
did you realize that
speaker
agriculture was not where you want
speaker
it to to be
speaker
and that
speaker
you were thinking more in terms of religion.
speaker
Senior year high school was when I began
speaker
to really consider that
speaker
seriously
speaker
and through the years it was
speaker
really visible.
speaker
I love the phone.
speaker
I mean like I it's
speaker
not a case of that's not something
speaker
that I would have
speaker
and the ways I would have loved to have done that.

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Title: Gene Bay oral history interview, part 2.
Description: Recorded on January 23-24 at Gene Bay's residence in Newtown Square, Pennsylvania.
Creator: Marshall, William J. (interviewer)
Bay, Eugene Cooper, 1937- (interviewee)
Date: 2018
January 23-24, 2018
Type of resource: sound recording-nonmusical
Genre: interviews
oral histories
sound recordings
Form: born digital
Extent: 0.389 GB (1 WAV file)
Language: English
Subject names: Bay, Eugene Cooper, 1937-
Geographic subjects: North and Central America--United States--Pennsylvania--Newtown Square--Delaware
Rights status: Contact repository for more information
Rights status: COPYRIGHT NOT EVALUATED; http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/CNE/1.0/
Note: Recorded on January 23-24 at Gene Bay's residence in Newtown Square, Pennsylvania.
Physical location: ARCHIVES 18-0209; Presbyterian Historical Society, Philadelphia, PA
Related item: Gene Bay oral history interview, 2018.--http://prestohost68.inmagic.com/Presto/content/Detail.aspx?ctID=Y2RiNWNk...
Identifier (local): DR-100_0002-02
PID (Persistent Identifier): islandora:116238

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Gene Bay oral history interview, part 2.

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